The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Connections pt. 2: Suspect for SF-FM-BR-LH (Cold Days Spoilers)
GrandPanjandrum:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on December 21, 2012, 05:51:14 PM ---assuming she wasnt there the whole time, ready to take action as needed... (like she was in BR)
or that she didnt trap the spell somehow...
heck planting a small tac nuke under the mesuem green and blowing it at the right time owuld have done the job. but letting the white council finish would have been so much better, as its deniable.
but yes, i think Cowl is very much on Mavra's 'to do' list.
hes the one that got away .
as to evil bob, I dont think mavra knows he exists. She had a chance to examine the real bob in GP, and wasnt worried. the darkhallow was in bob's head, but whatever the black court spell is shes afriad of is probably not
--- End quote ---
First of all, Kudos and applause to Cenphx for starting all this off with such a thought provoking and encompassing thread. And, apologies if I go off on tangents periodically (Butcher's fault entirely).
I've had some time to think about the possibility that Mavra set this all up to rid the world of the Kemmerlerites. And, it makes quite a bit of sense. But, first, a little side issue:
None of this works if Murphy stays in town. Harry would spill it that blackmail is going on, or she would figure it out...or more likely, she would read the lie on Harry's face. So she has to be out of town.
Either:
1. Mavra hired Kincaid to get Murphy out of town.
2. A cutout of Mavra's hired Kincaid to get Murphy out of town.
3 A cutout of Mavra's hired Kincaid to take care of a little business in Hawaii ( Kaupe the cannibal dog man was out of control) and part of the deal was a suite at the The Ritz-Carlton in Kapalua for two. Mavra witnessed the little attraction during Blood Rites and hoped he'd take her. Although, that's leaving too much to chance.
Face it...Kincaid was hired by Mavra to get Murphy out of town so she could have an unobstructed gun (Harry) to point at the Kemmerlerites. Harry should just change his name to "Tool." First, Mavra turns him into a loaded gun. In Changes, Odin turns him into a loaded gun. Both point him at their respective targets.
I don't think Mavra ever had Kemmerler's Word until he handed it to her at the end of Dead Beat, however. I think she knew it was on the market (and by whom...Bony Tony) as soon as he started taking bids. Cowl, as a Kemmerlerite, would have told her. Getting it wasn't important because of the nature of the Darkhallow. Cowl knew about Bob. He might have learned about him during Grave Peril (or from Mavra). They both, likely, had the opportunity to evaluate what he was. Although, I think it more likely that Cowl has a previous relationship with Justin DuMourne, and was well aware of Bob's history and knowledge of Kemmerler. He never really needed the book...but was more interested in keeping it out of Corpsetaker and Grevane's hands. And, even that didn't matter due to his strategy during the Darkhallow.
The simple fact of the matter is that whomever performed the Darkhallow was at their most vulnerable. Each Kemmerlerite tried to counter this by having a sidekick. Corpsetaker/ The Ghoul ; Grevane/ Liverspots (and his zombie army); Cowl/ Kumori. One does the Darkhallow. One watches the primary's back. Cowl's obvious strategy was to let the other two fight it out while he stayed out of sight. When the "last one standing" performed the Darkhallow, he would pop out and take that one down, and the Darkhallow was all his. The wildcard was Harry.
At the same time this was all going on, Mavra goes to the Red Court (which she has been using all along) and instructs them to attack the White Council with all they've got. It was bloody and prolonged fighting that even proceeded to poison gas at mortal hospitals. The Red Court even violated Faerie and probably the Unseelie Accords (of course when you payoff Ferrovax with a princely gift to look the other way...who cares). But, the White Council must be put on the defense so they couldn't field a full team of Wardens to stop the Darkhallow before it got started. I disagree with Ms. Duck on this issue. She needed the Darkhallow to go all the way forward because by that time only one would be left standing...because of the vulnerability of the party performing the ritual. If the White Council shows up in bulk, it would probably never get started, and all the Kemmerlerites wouldn't be fighting it out amoung themselves. They would be hightailing it out of there. Mavra's hope was that they would not provide anyone to assist Harry, which has been the norm in the past.
As it turns out Corpsetaker gets taken out early. Then Grevane, while occupied controlling the Darkhallow gets taken by Carlos. If Mavra is under a veil watching this, she's nervous at this point because the sometimes ally she wants dead (Cowl) hasn't showed himself yet. But, she has her loaded gun (Harry) there to draw him out. Cowl makes his play (dropping his zombie disguise) and presumably disables Harry.
Mavra thinks this is golden. She waits for Cowl to turn his attention to the Darkhallow. Kumori is focussed on Harry, and she can step in and take out the final two (or three counting Kumori) individuals with knowledge of Kemmerler's Word without breaking a sweat. But, Harry messes up her perfect plan. He regains control of Bob, and Bob flies a dinosaur into Cowl releasing all the built up energy and power into a tree flattening shock wave. By the time Mavra regains her senses, Harry has acquired the book, Cowl and Kumori are gone as well. Cowl is alive, and Kumori is questionable.
So...yeah...I agree with you that Mavra had two goals:
1. Get the Book of Kemmerler
2. Take out all those with detailed knowledge of The Book of Kemmerler
I don't think she had it previously. And, I still think her goal is to return to life (I still believe Mavra to be Morgana). But, I think Kemmerler's Word is a severe threat to wiping out the Black Court in mass....and also a clue on how to raise the Black Court in mass (sort of a reverse Darkhallow in the middle of a cemetery 8) )
Bonus: Kumori annagram is Miroku, which is an anime character that performs exorcisms and demon exterminations... :P
Cenphx:
I need to reread and absord the great Mavra theorizing, but I wanted to drop a quick note--I dont think your off on tangents at all! I just wanted to get the connections between these events laid out and hope that everyone would jump in, riffing off where I started, building, going different directions, figuring things out. So I think what everyone's been doing in the thread is awesome and really impressive! But now youve got me reeeaallly worried about why Mavra was trying to kill Thomas in Blood Rites and what the heck he did to 'betray' her.
Elegast:
--- Quote ---First of all, Kudos and applause to Cenphx for starting all this off with such a thought provoking and encompassing thread.
--- End quote ---
Seconded.
--- Quote from: GrandPanjandrum on December 22, 2012, 12:46:55 AM ---I've had some time to think about the possibility that Mavra set this all up to rid the world of the Kemmerlerites. And, it makes quite a bit of sense. But, first, a little side issue:
None of this works if Murphy stays in town. Harry would spill it that blackmail is going on, or she would figure it out...or more likely, she would read the lie on Harry's face. So she has to be out of town.
Either:
1. Mavra hired Kincaid to get Murphy out of town.
2. A cutout of Mavra's hired Kincaid to get Murphy out of town.
3 A cutout of Mavra's hired Kincaid to take care of a little business in Hawaii ( Kaupe the cannibal dog man was out of control) and part of the deal was a suite at the The Ritz-Carlton in Kapalua for two. Mavra witnessed the little attraction during Blood Rites and hoped he'd take her. Although, that's leaving too much to chance.
Face it...Kincaid was hired by Mavra to get Murphy out of town so she could have an unobstructed gun (Harry) to point at the Kemmerlerites. Harry should just change his name to "Tool." First, Mavra turns him into a loaded gun. In Changes, Odin turns him into a loaded gun. Both point him at their respective targets.
--- End quote ---
Ah. This is the ideal occasion for me to explain one of my pet theories. :D
I've noticed that in the Dresdenverse, family seems to be very important: Mab and Maeve, Titania and Aurora, Ortega and Bianca, Marva and her "children". When you kill someone's child they get pissed, even immortal gods/badass.
Now, we know that Dracula was a Blampire. His father was Drakul. Dracula was killed.
WAG: Drakul is enraged by the death of his son, and is planning his revenge.
That's why he sent the skinwalker in Turn Coat: Harry protected the White Court in a big way in White Night, so Drakul decided to kill him. Notice that the skinwalker was especially tough on the whites: many killed, Thomas tortured. (Other possibility: the big D sent the skinwalker after the SmF disaster.)
So it's possible that Drakul himself asked Kincaid to help Mavra in Dead Beat.
Ms Duck:
@GP - good catch on the murphy angle and Hawaii, i never thought of that before.. hmmm.
and some folks have wondered about kinkaid and Mavra, in regards to the pictures themselves.
about the word. im very, very, very very sure Mavra had thw rod prior to DB, or knew where it woudl eb found. She started the ball rolling four years before the book was 'found'. Thats a loong time to plan ahead for a 'random event'.
its downright Mab like. ;)
now we coudl explain this with either prophecy or time travel, but occam razor here. it sone prediciton. not the half dozen Mab does every book.
sometimes, even in a fantsay novel, magic is explained by tricks behind the screen, and i think this is such a case.
Ms Duck:
--- Quote from: Cenphx on December 22, 2012, 01:11:33 AM ---I need to reread and absord the great Mavra theorizing, but I wanted to drop a quick note--I dont think your off on tangents at all! I just wanted to get the connections between these events laid out and hope that everyone would jump in, riffing off where I started, building, going different directions, figuring things out. So I think what everyone's been doing in the thread is awesome and really impressive! But now youve got me reeeaallly worried about why Mavra was trying to kill Thomas in Blood Rites and what the heck he did to 'betray' her.
--- End quote ---
ive often assumed its not thomas himself, per see (hes way too young) but the white court in gerneal. they were the ones who set up and betrayed the blacks in 1890, something the blacks didnt figure out for quite a while- maybe as long as a century.
in order to take out the blacks, its not enough to send in the mrotals. the elders would just have lunch. you need to take out the elders first, in their secret, hidden fortress, and in a way that it will take them a long time to regenrate.
Tungaska blast, courtesy of Eb..
yup, they got betrayed. hard. and are quite..ticked.
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