[CD spoilers] Cowl = Simon reference thread

[Arjan]

I think we should agree to disagree on these points.

Simon is an SC member and leader of the Brute Squad. He has many many responsiblies and is constrained by his power (this is a running theme in the Dresdenverse). He wouldn't have been able to sneak out of Archangel. He would simply not be able to stay in Chicago long enough to preform the Darkhallow.

The gatekeeper disappears all the time. Just let people get used to it.
He is the boss.

I can't think of any possible excuse or false mission he could create which would allow him to go to Chicago for the time it took to preform the darkhallow.

By that time Archangel was already fallen. As known traitor he does not need to hide his face

Especially since he is the vampire expert during the vampire war. 

Simon would definately have a WC identity to protect.

No he has not if he is dead. No secret identity needed because he now has only the cowl identity. Cowl has no reason to hide his face if he was simon!

As I said before, the attack on Archangel did a ton of bad things to the WC. Some examples:
 

If Simon revealed he was a traitor that lessens the impact of 3 of those.

The shock of him being a traitor, of everybody could be a traitor, would compensate for that.

Not only that but if Simon (and SC MEMBER) was revealed as a traitor than rampant paranoia would have been created throughout the WC. The risk of Peabody being found out would have being increased tremendously

Not really. He was not found when paranoia was rampant after the betrayals that lead to the defeats in dead beat.

and he was one of the best people to be a traitor. having him be removed and the younger wardens potentially de-mind boinked would have been a very bad blow to the Circles goals. Not to mention that Simon was close friends with both Eb and Martha Liberty. There's no telling what Eb at least would do after he found out that such a close friend was a traitor.

Sending them on stupid mission sounds like a very bad idea.

You can arrange that in a few days and everything will be over before they know it. Treason of the supreme commander can be devastating.

Simon is obviously a brilliant military leader or he would not have been chosen to lead the Brute Squad. Sustaining heavy losses would be very very suspicious and would also likely get him removed from his position.

By that time it would be too late.

Also, how would he stop them from using death curses to kill themselves?

Sleep potions and thorn manacles. Simply invite them one by one in your room.

[123456789blaaa]

<snip>

I think we should stop this debate since I don't think we'll convince each other (generally I find that a debate should stop after posts start to get cut up point by point).

Does anyone else want to chime in? I know lots of other people here are in favour of Simon=Cowl.

[phoenixjustice]

We don't, but would Larisa still be acting like an apprentice decades later?

No, probably not but I think she'd be willing to go along with him, especially if it meant keeping an eye on her Mentor who may or may not have something wrong with him (i.e Infected).

In fact it may also be out of Obligation. Here's a thought I wonder if many have put forth: perhaps she was brought back by Simon.

Maybe her death was kind of a catalyst & he lost it at Archangel (Nemesis may or may not be a part of it.) He either releases a DC at Archangel, fakes one or someone else threw it. After that he flees in the ensuing chaos, takes up the name Cowl, reviving Larisa.

After that, he somehow comes across the Fomor, makes a deal with them (maybe they had a hand in heping bring Larisa back) -which would explain the voice Harry heard in DB- & gets word (somehow) that Kemmler's book is in Chicago.

He is curious to see Harry's skills..

[Aein]

The core argument of the Cowl=Simon theory is very simple and very powerful:

we know that Cowl is a human SC-level wizard, so the list of suspect is very short

This doesn't exactly make sense to me. To me, this argument assumes that we've seen every human SC-level wizard in the Dresdenverse, and that because we've seen them all, Cowl must therefore be one of them. That's a pretty big assumption, with no support to back it up, especially given Harry's notoriety for unreliable narration. A wizard of SC-level skill could easily hide their existence from others if he or she so chose.

[peregrine]

On the one hand, Elaine is doing much the same thing, sandbagging her skill level.  On the other hand, they at least know of her existance.  And Cowl has at least made vague allusions to Council internal politics.

[madness]

This doesn't exactly make sense to me. To me, this argument assumes that we've seen every human SC-level wizard in the Dresdenverse, and that because we've seen them all, Cowl must therefore be one of them. That's a pretty big assumption, with no support to back it up, especially given Harry's notoriety for unreliable narration. A wizard of SC-level skill could easily hide their existence from others if he or she so chose.

Harry has not met most of the Senior Council eligible wizards.  Most of them appear to be hermits or retired or whatever.

That does not mean that the OTHER Senior Council eligible wizards are not familiar with them though.  I find it highly unlikely that people like Langtry, Eb and Rashid are not familiar with all of the 250+ year old wizards on the White Council.  They may not have seen some of them for a century or two but they would likely recognize them if they ran into them - which is the whole point of the disguise.

[phoenixjustice]

And Cowl has at least made vague allusions to Council internal politics.

Exactly. His line struck me, since the council values secrecy so much, how would he know that they're 'rotting.

"The Council is not what it was," said Cowl. "It has rotted from the inside, and many wizards who have chafed at its restrictions have seen the war with the Red Court reveal its weakness. It will fall. Soon. Perhaps before tomorrow night."

[peregrine]

Also, even if Cowl is Simon, and everyone would no longer give him help, knowing that Cowl is Simon would still enable them to better defend against him.  People know him, people know what he can do, to some extent.  As Cowl, he's a cipher, and harder to predict and defend against.  Also, if he was planting metaphorical landmines in the Council, outting himself as Simon would make the Council more wary of things he did.

I personally do not think Cowl is Simon, but if he were, there's still PLENTY of reasons to hide that fact.

[peregrine]

Then again, what was the timeline for Archangel>Dead Beat?  Because Cowl was talking fairly current events, and if he had been "dead" for several years by then, he wouldn't have known what's going on in the Council.

Then again, Peabody was still active, and could have been feeding him info.

[TheCuriousFan]

Archangel fell about two days before the White Council meeting in Summer Knight IIRC. It had been three years since then in Dead Beat.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I'm not going to go any further into the details of the, is he/isn't he debate.  It makes some sense that Cowl is a wizard with SC ability but there is nothing to really nail it down, at least not for me.

Do most of you who think Cowl=Simon also think Elaine=Kumori?  I can buy the later more than the former.  My question to those who believe both equations are true.  Has anyone put together a WAG why Elaine would hook up with the man whose apprentice enthralled her when she was a teenager?  Granted we don't have much information about Elaine after she ran away from Justin's burning house and we really know even less about Simon, but I'm hoping someone has tried to think how it might have worked. 

That raises an interesting point.  Has Jim said anything about when we might see Elaine again?  It's hard to get any more clues with her out of the picture for so long.  She was in the fourth and the ninth book. (Maybe in the seventh book too.)  I think she is overdue for an appearance.     

[wizard nelson]

Harry has not met most of the Senior Council eligible wizards.  Most of them appear to be hermits or retired or whatever.

That does not mean that the OTHER Senior Council eligible wizards are not familiar with them though.  I find it highly unlikely that people like Langtry, Eb and Rashid are not familiar with all of the 250+ year old wizards on the White Council.  They may not have seen some of them for a century or two but they would likely recognize them if they ran into them - which is the whole point of the disguise.

a good question for jim, has cowl been seen yet without his uhh... cowl?

[123456789blaaa]

I'm not going to go any further into the details of the, is he/isn't he debate.  It makes some sense that Cowl is a wizard with SC ability but there is nothing to really nail it down, at least not for me.

Do most of you who think Cowl=Simon also think Elaine=Kumori?  I can buy the later more than the former.  My question to those who believe both equations are true.  Has anyone put together a WAG why Elaine would hook up with the man whose apprentice enthralled her when she was a teenager?  Granted we don't have much information about Elaine after she ran away from Justin's burning house and we really know even less about Simon, but I'm hoping someone has tried to think how it might have worked. 

That raises an interesting point.  Has Jim said anything about when we might see Elaine again?  It's hard to get any more clues with her out of the picture for so long.  She was in the fourth and the ninth book. (Maybe in the seventh book too.)  I think she is overdue for an appearance.     

It's unlikely that Elaine is Kumori since she wouldn't have had to stand on tippy-toes to hold a knife to Harry's throat. There's also how she helped Harry to ruin the Circles plan's twice.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Exactly. His line struck me, since the council values secrecy so much, how would he know that they're 'rotting.

Pure propaganda. He doesn't have to know anything at all about them to say they're rotting, or evil, or big meanies, or that they eat babies.  He's opposed to them so he has a motive to badmouth them.  And it's not as if they were rotting, even.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Do most of you who think Cowl=Simon also think Elaine=Kumori?

Not since the recent mention that Simon had a female apprentice.

  Has anyone put together a WAG why Elaine would hook up with the man whose apprentice enthralled her when she was a teenager?

Because she was never enthralled, but a free-willed associate of Justin and went to Simon for support and protection when Justin died ?