The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
PG: combining Neurovore and Knnn.
Thork:
The way I read "what stalks us all," I think Lea is speaking broadly.
If "all' means the fae collectively? Perhaps the fomor collectively, perhaps Death, perhaps Cold Iron (perhaps as personified by Ferrovax?) Mortal technology?
The impression I get here is that Lea is talking about something more powerful than the Fae as a group, or more powerful than the fae+humanity as a group. Something more powerful than Winter and Summer as concepts. Entropy, death, some primal principle.
Or maybe she just means the Circle / Black Council.
Ms Duck:
one thought:
just because lord raith had outsider conections, and justin had outsider conections, and the black court may have outsider conections, does not mean cowl does, or that they are all on the same team.
the way i see it, the outsiders are living nuclear weapons, that want to be used, and can only be called in. they got a taste of this world during the black court war, or earlier, and have been trying to get some idiot to open a full gate ever since. the easist way to to do that is by escalation- they offer very generous deals to everyone who comes calling, asuming sometime sooner or later some idoit will open the door.
so lots of people will have outsider conections, but not be on the same team- in fact, they are liekly to be opsing each other. one side gets nukes, then the next has to get them in reaction.
lt_murgen:
I had an interesting thought as I read through all of the posts.
One of the distinguishing things of the Fea is that they cannot lie and that they must honor their word once given. It is part of their nature. It is something they must be aware of constantly- not only current commitments but the effect of new ones upon old commitments. It is speculated (and I believe true) that if a Fae were to have two mutually exclusive commitments, it would severly weaken them. Given this, here is my speculation:
-Lea gives a promise to Maggie to protect Harry.
-Mab forsees the coming rise of the outsiders, and enters into a deal to prevent it at all costs. Part of this deal has to do with Harry either becoming an agent of winter or a member of the Black Council, and it doesn't bode well for him.
-Lea realizes this puts her in a bind- on one side she has her oath to Maggie, on the other her fealty to Mab. Mab, of course, sees it as a chance to put some limitations on an powerful subordinate. So Lea casts about for the power to do the unthinkable- to lie and break oaths.
-Someone sells Lea on the idea that the Athame would grant her that power. She trades it for locking summer and winter into a stalemate, so the Red Court can come and go through the nevernever and further the aims of the anti-wizard portion of the Black Council.
-Now Mab is in a real bind. So she imprisons Lea and takes the athame. Then she sets about showing Lea how to properly handle balancing a debt ledger.
So, from a certain point of view, PG was all about showing Mab showing Lea how to further her own ends while eliminating debts. Mab showed her that true power lies not in some artifact, but in being smart, and clever, and quick. As Lea said "Milady Queen Mab taught me the error of my ways."
Ms Duck:
--- Quote from: lt_murgen on May 07, 2012, 04:21:15 PM ---I had an interesting thought as I read through all of the posts.
One of the distinguishing things of the Fea is that they cannot lie and that they must honor their word once given. It is part of their nature. It is something they must be aware of constantly- not only current commitments but the effect of new ones upon old commitments. It is speculated (and I believe true) that if a Fae were to have two mutually exclusive commitments, it would severly weaken them. Given this, here is my speculation:
-Lea gives a promise to Maggie to protect Harry.
-Mab forsees the coming rise of the outsiders, and enters into a deal to prevent it at all costs. Part of this deal has to do with Harry either becoming an agent of winter or a member of the Black Council, and it doesn't bode well for him.
-Lea realizes this puts her in a bind- on one side she has her oath to Maggie, on the other her fealty to Mab. Mab, of course, sees it as a chance to put some limitations on an powerful subordinate. So Lea casts about for the power to do the unthinkable- to lie and break oaths.
-Someone sells Lea on the idea that the Athame would grant her that power. She trades it for locking summer and winter into a stalemate, so the Red Court can come and go through the nevernever and further the aims of the anti-wizard portion of the Black Council.
-Now Mab is in a real bind. So she imprisons Lea and takes the athame. Then she sets about showing Lea how to properly handle balancing a debt ledger.
So, from a certain point of view, PG was all about showing Mab showing Lea how to further her own ends while eliminating debts. Mab showed her that true power lies not in some artifact, but in being smart, and clever, and quick. As Lea said "Milady Queen Mab taught me the error of my ways."
--- End quote ---
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on May 07, 2012, 04:12:42 PM ---just because lord raith had outsider conections, and justin had outsider conections, and the black court may have outsider conections, does not mean cowl does, or that they are all on the same team.
--- End quote ---
We know that the Council destroy information related specifically to dangerous lawbreaking - like Kemmler's writings, as Bob says at the start of DB. That's one reason to think information about Outsiders is limited and not in common currency.
Harry knows precious little about them, and him getting new information about them is a big deal when it happens. That's another.
For those of you who believe the Oblivion War is what it seems to be, there's an additional set of people whose actions would work against Outsider knowledge being common.
The thing about Justin and Lord R both having Outsidery knowledge is that we have an established connection between them; they were both associates of Maggie during her time on the dark side. They may not always have been working with the same motivations but the information there could totally have flowed from one of them to the other without needing any more supporting evidence than what we have now. Fitting Cowl in with that cabal would reduce every demonstrated non-White Council bit of Outsider knowledge to one source, and with the above points for Outsider knowledge being restricted, I find that plausible. (Cowl being Simon would make this particularly neat.)
I'm not seeing where you're getting the Black Court having Outsider connections from, though Mavra getting them through Cowl would fit with my take on things here. I can totally buy your living nuclear weapons analogy if we consider the Dresdenverse now as being somewhere in the mid-1940s as proliferation goes, but I think they'd be a sight better known if lots of power groups had the capacity to call on them.
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