The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[spoilers for PG] I think Harry Fixed Little Chicago
Ms Duck:
--- Quote from: Elegast on May 03, 2012, 02:49:42 PM ---Yes. Problem: everything you say would still be true even if Harry was the one to fix LC.
--- End quote ---
let me pull an occam on that one, and say that I find the idea that mab knows about lC, used it in TC, and was in his house in smf/tc; but harry still had to go time traveling to fix lc is a bit complex for me.
--- Quote ---Ok, so lets start a serious discussion on the theory that Harry used time-travelling to fix LC.
--- End quote ---
sweet ! go for it Knnn ! yaaaaay Knnn!
knnn:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on May 03, 2012, 03:11:05 PM ---sweet ! go for it Knnn ! yaaaaay Knnn!
--- End quote ---
Um thanks? ;)
Other interesting points in the plot is that:
a) Harry gets hit by that big car, delaying him from trying his initial attempt at using LC. That "big old car" could well be driven by a wizard, but it seems unlikely that Harry would do that to himself.
b) Molly's interruption conveniently puts off Harry's use of LC a bit longer. Again, it would be hard to pin that one on Harry.
--> A time-travel theory would otherwise either have to say that these are lucky coincidences, or that someone else was helping out in the background. I think this is a weakness of the theory because it involves other powers (Occam's razor here), but maybe someone else can explain it all.
Another point to consider is that Harry might not have control over his time travel -- e.g. he might be sent by Mab/Uriel/Mavra/Odin to do a specific task. If you can reliably add this to the theory, we might be able to revise our understanding of what actually happened in PG.
Ms Duck:
questions:
what is so important about fixing LC that harry would risk parageddon to do so?
doens't the car hoit seem like a clue bat, based on bob's discourse, that the gatekeeper was involved?
why Harry? I can see Molly going back in tiem to save herself far more likely.
and i still think any change of time, no matter how small, by a non omniscient being is insanely risky. So Harry travels time, goes inside the aprtment, and lets mister in. What if mister was chronoligcally elsewhere at that time? hes just changed time, parageddon.
suppose harry (say ehs from 100 years in the future) sneezes, or uses the bathroom. congrats, hes just spread cold virus all oevr the place that current humans have no immunity too- instant plauge. the hwol 'butterfly' effect gets very, very very nasty when you think about it.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on May 03, 2012, 03:42:59 PM ---what is so important about fixing LC that harry would risk parageddon to do so?
--- End quote ---
1) His life *is* on the line, so yeah.
2) According to this theory, Harry has already fixed LC. At this point, not fixing it would cause paradox.
I realize the first two are kinda circular arguments, so:
3) Perhaps he needs to use LC to find something, and the "nearest place" he can reach it is there?
4) Maybe he finds out that a key piece of getting PG to fall out as is it actually did involves doing something in the past.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on May 03, 2012, 03:42:59 PM ---Doens't the car hoist seem like a clue bat, based on bob's discourse, that the gatekeeper was involved?
--- End quote ---
Good point.
Actually, if we need someone else as the culprit for sending Harry back in time, the Gatekeeper makes for a good candidate. I'd keep that thought in mind for future reference, but right now I don't see what the Gatekeeper's goal could be in this.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on May 03, 2012, 03:42:59 PM ---why Harry? I can see Molly going back in tiem to save herself far more likely.
--- End quote ---
Thing is, according to the assumptions I made earlier, in order for Molly to go back in time, she would need the knowledge that LC was in fact flawed. As of this point in the narrative she doesn't appear to have that information, nor would I expect her to get it given that LC has been destroyed.
..unless of course you want to suggest that one of the future books is named "Veil Time" (reference to Molly's veils, time-travel and Marriage...) ;D ;D
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on May 03, 2012, 03:42:59 PM ---and i still think any change of time, no matter how small, by a non omniscient being is insanely risky. So Harry travels time, goes inside the aprtment, and lets mister in. What if mister was chronoligcally elsewhere at that time? hes just changed time, parageddon.
suppose harry (say ehs from 100 years in the future) sneezes, or uses the bathroom. congrats, hes just spread cold virus all oevr the place that current humans have no immunity too- instant plauge. the hwol 'butterfly' effect gets very, very very nasty when you think about it.
--- End quote ---
This is of course the problem with time travel. On the other hand, if you really believe you have got to make the exact same steps in the sand, then there is no real story here. You are pretty much stuck.
As I see it, we can use one of the two following options instead:
1) Maybe we can say that the universe is resilient enough that nothing you do will break things unless you make a change you know is a contradiction.
2) You can sort of grandfather everything in. That is, you can say something along the lines that as long as a person doesn't exercise "free will" (i.e. make a conscious decision to change things), then every he will do, he will have done already (in the sense that it has been "pre-programmed already into the universe"), and there is no change to History - hence no paradox. Note that this might allow non-mortals to time travel.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
I've always wondered whether the logical place to fit in a time-travelling Harry story around the events of a previous book would be DB; the bit in Mort's place where the ghosts of Chicago identify six loci of necromantic activity, only some of which correlate with known plot points, reads to me like it might be set-up for there to be other more discreet Kemmlerites in town whom future-Harry's intervention is necessitated to prevent interference with the events that already happened.
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