The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[spoilers for PG] I think Harry Fixed Little Chicago
SerScot:
This is the best thread concerning the "Time-traveling Harry fixed Little Chicago" theory. Great summary by Knnn in this answer. The [main] alternative explanation, Mab fixed it, is presented in those threads: The Answer(hopefully) to Who Fixed Little Chicago (FULL SPOILERS) and Mab, Little Chicago, and Demon Reach.
-Elegast
Ms. Duck,
--- Quote ---Dear SerScot
Let me make a suggestion. You cannot logically prove ‘Harry is a time traveler’ but disproving ‘Mab fixed it.’ Any more than you can prove ‘there is a silver teapot in solar orbit’ by disproving ‘the existence of invisible pink unicorns.’ The two are separate, standalone ideas, and you can only prove an idea by coming up with evidence for it and testing it.
--- End quote ---
Let me restate what I've said as my rational:
--- Quote --- Ms. Duck.
I'm applying Occam's razor. Harry fixing Little Chicago is the simpler explaination. Here's why I believe that it is simpler: Mr. Butcher says Harry will break all of the laws of magic. There is speculation (Bob, Harry, and the Gatekeeper) about time travel at the start of PG. Harry knows about the flaw in little Chicago and has the highest motivation foe seeing it repaired (he doesn't want to die). Further, Harry has the highest chance of getting into thw apartment and fixing the problem without being noticed by anyone because it is his apartment. He knows the wards, he has a key, and no one would be surprised to see him enter or leave.
I sincerely believe it was Harry. Were others (perhaps Mab) involved giving rise to the "evidence" you could cite? Perhaps. But as other's have pointed out faries never do favors without favors in return. Harry was already in Mab's debt. She, based on Harry's conversation with Lea in GS, can't help Harry withou Harry incurring greater debt. To our knowledge that hasn't happened.
Harry fixed Little Chicago, not Mab.
--- End quote ---
I said this in response to the assertion that Mab was simply defending her property, Harry:
--- Quote ---Elegast,
Lea's charge is to defend Harry from spiritual attack, in other words, attacks from the Never-never. Little Chicago is a manifestation of mortal magic in the real world. It doesn't fall under what Maggie Sr. Paid for and any new action would have incurred new debt for Harry. Therefore, I believe my crticism of the Mab theory stands.
--- End quote ---
My response to TCF regarding his question about the information she provided that helped harry beat the Kemmlerites:
--- Quote ---TCF,
If that's the case why didn't Mab take out the heirs of Kemmler? Why not take direct action as the Mab theory proponents suggest she did with Little Chicago?
--- End quote ---
Here's my response to TCF and Paladino:
--- Quote ---TCF,
Harry Could have survived Little Chicago too. Perhaps he would have seen the flaw and refrained from using it, or seen the flaw and fixed it before using it? There were no guarantee's with Kemmelerites either.
Paladino,
Harry already knows that someone fixed Little Chicago. Once he gets the opportunity to time travel perhaps he puts two and two together and heads over to his place?
--- End quote ---
Regarding Ms. Duck's contention that Harry, if Time Traveling will never let the two kids die at Splattercon!!!:
--- Quote ---Ms. Duck,
Here's the thing with the two kids. Pre Changes, Ghost Story I'd agree that Harry would never let those two kids die if he could stop it. What if, Harry discovers later than there was some important reason those two kids die or that if he prevents their deaths something else even worse would happen. C and GS were Harry learning and then seeing what Blowback is. They are forcing him to start looking longer term at the consequences of his actions, no matter how good intended they are.
[Spoilers for Anathem ]
(click to show/hide)At the end of the Book Erasmus asks Fraa Lodeger if there is any way Orolo could be brought back after learning of the Polycosmic time bending and world track crossing powers of the Incantors and Rhetors. Then Erasmus answers his own question, the peace that was being signed was incompatable with his friend and Mentor being alive. It could be done but the cost was too high despite Orolo's death.
At the end of the Book Erasmus asks Fraa Lodeger if there is any way Orolo could be brought back after learning of the Polycosmic time bending and world track crossing powers of the Incantors and Rhetors. Then Erasmus answers his own question, the peace that was being signed was incompatable with his friend and Mentor being alive. It could be done but the cost was too high despite Orolo's death.
Perhaps the situation at Splattercon!!! is similar. Harry will want those kids to be alive but recognize that, for some reason we don't know yet, if they are alive things will be much, much worse for everyone else.
I think that is a big theme for the Dresden Files as a whole. That you can't save everyone. That hard choices are part of life and they cannot be avoided without great cost.
--- End quote ---
I'm not claiming to have hard evidence that this is what will happen. I'm suggesting it makes the most sense. The story is about Harry and his growth as a Wizard and a Human being. It is character driven. Having Mab show up "dues ex machina" and fix Little Chicago does very little to drive Harry's character. Having Harry travel back in time and make very hard choices is in keeping with the overall themes of the Dresden Files.
That's my two cents.
Elegast:
--- Quote ---Lea's charge is to defend Harry from spiritual attack, in other words, attacks from the Never-never.
--- End quote ---
Do we have the exact wording of the contract between Lea and Maggie?
And besides Mab can do anything she wants if she feels it's her interest. Only lying, taking/giving gift and breaking oath are impossible. And honestly, deciding to save Harry was an easy call: minimal effort, great probability that he would be become WK.
Kaiser:
Mister fixed Little Chicago!
Why?
Because Mister is the White God!
Ms Duck:
NO, the exact details about the lea/maggie deal will be revealed around book 19, according to the schedule. There is alsot he issue of why Lea accepted such a deal, what exactly she feels about harry and thomas, and what ehr relationship with maggie was.
I believe she loved maggie, and considers harry and thomas as 'her' kids. there is some evidence for this:
-Lea often refers tot hem as her children, not her god children
-she has gone way beyond what a fariy godmother would be expected to do
- her kiss on thomas scarred him permantly
-the way she rolls her eyes at Eb
- the leandaisdhe of legend was a lover/ dark muse, who would take blood from her loevr sin return for granting them genius
as to the 'harry fixed it' I feel you need some kind of evidence. One thing that is clear, to me, is that Jim loves leaving clues. he wouldn't make something this big- if im right, its affected four novels so far- and not leave clues.
annother poster once told me they had asked JIm who did it, and Jim said ' the clues are out there, you figure it out.' I have looked for that comment, but its not in the offical woj yet, so you may want to take it with a grain of salt.
But still, i believe the truth is out there. ;D
SerScot:
Ms. Duck,
--- Quote ---actually, I think it probably can, it hust risks parageddon by doing so. It also liekly takes enormous power, which is why its likely the sort of thing gods do not mortals.
but the point is acadmeic; juts by traveling to the past you inately chnage the past. there ar enow two of you; this changes things. not to mention the whole 'buttefly effect'- part of the theory for harry time tevalign seems to involve the car. so where did he get it? is it a time travelr too? or did he steal one? by dpoing so, he changed someones past. That car accident? it changes someone's past as well. any such actions risk destorying the universe; no matter how good harry is he's not a god and cannot predict every possible effect or change.
--- End quote ---
But in the discussion between Bob and Harry about Time Travel in Proven Guilty Bob's pretty clear that it is possible and you can "nudge" unimportant things to influence events. What you can't do is go in guns blazing and save everyone you want to save. That's what causes the Universe to implode. What we think we see in PG appear to be "nudges" done with great care.
Harry not being able to save those kids is exactly why I think Butcher will go that direction. It's the sort of moral quandry that Harry will agonize over.
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