The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Doylist analysis on LC fix timing
lt_murgen:
Going back to the Doylist idea and looking at the writer's reasons, rather than character reasons, I believe such an analysis lends credence to the idea of a time-travelling Harry.
Consider the knowledge of time travel to be a Chekov's gun. It was placed in Proved Guilty as a interesting side note, but not critical to that plot. However, once seen, it can be called upon when it is critical to the plot later.
Consider this: For whatever reason, Harry has to change something in the past, around the time of Proven Guilty. He knows when he will be gone, so he goes back to his apartment to use LC. He runs into Thomas and pretends to be current Harry, in a hurry. He fixed LC and gets the info he needs. But on his way out, he lets something slip that sets Thomas on edge. Thus Thomas greets Harry with suspicion later on in PG.
As far as a reaons, well, this was the book that showed the aftermath of someone's attack on Arctis Tor- another big event that occurred "off camera". Perhaps not forever...
knnn:
--- Quote from: lt_murgen on April 04, 2012, 03:30:03 PM ---He runs into Thomas and pretends to be current Harry, in a hurry. He fixed LC and gets the info he needs. But on his way out, he lets something slip that sets Thomas on edge. Thus Thomas greets Harry with suspicion later on in PG.
--- End quote ---
I like this explanation. It also covers why Thomas is not knowledgeable about LC in "Backup".
Ms Duck:
your doylist explanation needs more doylist explanations ;D
1-if it was future harry, why does he need thomas to let him in?
2- the discussion about time was not about time travel; it was about predicting the future. its about how someone who can see the future, must act in twisty turny methods if they wish to change it.
2b- thus, if your assumption is corect, a person fore saw that harry would not be there then, and that thomas would be, and then had to talk thomas into letting them in, (since its not future harry, he would not need that coincidence) and its not Eb (he was busy). So how did the gatekeeper talk his way past thomas, a person he had never met before? (and a whampire as well?)
2c- youre ignoring the car hit at the begining of the book. by doylist analysis, that must be crucial as well.
3- does not explain: the incidents with LC in turn coat, or his headaches in TC
3b- this is important because at some point jim needs to solve most of these mysteries. the list is now long enough that either many of them have one single solution, or hes is going to have a similliarion of his own attached to book 20.
3c- while a 700 page 'mysteries solved' would be awesome, i dont see it selling well. ;D
simpler doylist explanation: Mab. the time travel discussion is about how she foresaw the future, and why she needs to use very twisty methods ( bring molly to AT, to bring harry, etc..) to change it.
doylist within the doylist: unless LC was fixed, mab's plan would not work. ergo, she , prior to implementing her plan, made sure all parts were operational.
DwD2- this explains the exact wording she used in her bargian with harry in sk.
- also the clues given in TC, SmF, C, and GS
(I dont mind doylist analysis. I just think if youre going to do it, you need to to do it on all the books as one piece. too many of the mysteries depend on clues in prior or later books.)
- the quacker.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 04:39:28 PM ---your doylist explanation needs more doylist explanations ;D
1-if it was future harry, why does he need thomas to let him in?
--- End quote ---
If you look at the original post, nobody is saying it must be Time-travelling Harry. Any sort of "Thomas let them in" is possible.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 04:39:28 PM ---2c- youre ignoring the car hit at the begining of the book. by doylist analysis, that must be crucial as well.
--- End quote ---
A Doyle explanation for the cab ride does not need to explain every other point in the book. (e.g. fixing little Chicago does not necessarily have to do with the assault on AT)
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 04:39:28 PM ---3- does not explain: the incidents with LC in turn coat, or his headaches in TC
--- End quote ---
It certainly doesn't need to explain things in other books. There can certainly be other (Doyalist or otherwise) explanations for those things (e.g. Demonreach making its presence known).
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 04:39:28 PM ---3b- this is important because at some point jim needs to solve most of these mysteries. the list is now long enough that either many of them have one single solution, or hes is going to have a similliarion of his own attached to book 20.
--- End quote ---
Some of the outstanding questions in the books may have combined solutions, but to reject this theory just because it doesn't fit 3 specific incidents that you decided *must* be connected is a little harsh IMO.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 04:39:28 PM ---simpler doylist explanation: Mab. the time travel discussion is about how she foresaw the future, and why she needs to use very twisty methods ( bring molly to AT, to bring harry, etc..) to change it.
(I dont mind doylist analysis. I just think if youre going to do it, you need to to do it on all the books as one piece. too many of the mysteries depend on clues in prior or later books.)
- the quacker.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, but this theory isn't really "Doyalist" in that it doesn't really address the orignal Doyalist issue at all. Namely:
Why did Jim have Harry to go back to his apartment (in Murphy's car) only to take a cab to the convention?
synobal:
--- Quote from: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on April 03, 2012, 02:08:47 AM ---You are forgetting LC itself.
--- End quote ---
Ya the similarities between little chicago and (click to show/hide) and how Alera was formed always struck me, but I doubt anything will ever come of it. It was presumably destroyed after all.
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