The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Doylist analysis on LC fix timing
Ms Duck:
@knn-
no, because I think thats just filler. it does however, adress other issues:
- why did JIM have Mab steal the rod and mess with his memmories? it wasnt for plot or tension, having mab say "you are being traced by your fire magic; therefore, you may cast no evocations" would have done that better and easier.
- why the long discussion- not on time travel, btw, but on precognition- and the rather extreme lenghts you would have to go to change a propechy? - Because Mab is the one changing time.
- why the refences in TC to a tarp? or a headache caused by 'two icicles shoved in my brain?'
-thomas let someone in does not buy it for me. who? and why would he let them in? Thomas is a whampire lord- they dont get much more paranoid than that. I cant see gatekeeper coming up with some explanation thomas would accept. About the only person wed let in would be Justine, and she wasnt doing much at the moment.
-any future harry, thomas, or maggie jr would not need to be let in.
-Jim has mentioned that one of the reasons not to do a story from Mouses' pov is that he knows toom much. what, exactly? How about what the person who did it smelled like?
-and yes, i do think you need to consider the books as a whole, Take the belts for example- the clues about the erlking were not until much later. and it still is not resolved as to WHY ek may have done it. hence the other clues about marcone, hendricks, and odin.
-perhaps thomas let someone in. who? why? how did they get past? what clues have been dropped? were all the clues in PG? Somehow I doubt the last one.
- the quacker
who thinks mab did it, not for personal reasons, but because of the wieght of evidence.
prince lotore:
what if it is future Thomas that tomas let in. Thomas uses an amulet to get in and it probably stopped working after harrys place burns down. so who ever sends him back tells him how to fix lc but he needs his younger self to get in. thats why thomas is so broken up after harrys death. his future self came back to save harry once where is he this time
Ms Duck:
if 'lord thomas raith' from the future needs someone to let him in, hes not a good enough wizard to fix the darn thing.
also goes for maggie jr,etc,etc..
the PG story was rewritten, i believe, because its out of order- it was supposed to be before dead beat, but the editor wanted the trex for the first hard back. cant say i blame her.
;D
thus, it may be a story artifact. or filler, for a scene that was cut. or backstory- perhaps its part of the thomas become a hairdresser joke.
by itself, it doesnt answer any questions- whoever went in would still have to:
-know about the LC
-know how to fix it
-know about mab's plans
-foresee the future
-want to risk changing a prophecy to do so
-get past thomas now, instead of harry's wards, which in many ways, beign dumb, are easier to get past
- that still leaves us with two real options:
Mab
Gatekeeper
of all of these, I think Mab walking in the hidden door in the basement is a lot more likely. In whcih case, your analysis is just the time she did so, and has nothing to do with thomas at all.
prince lotore:
but what if future thomas goes back with future bob. they meet thomas there because they need him for what ever else they go back for.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ---no, because I think thats just filler.
--- End quote ---
Nevertheless, this was point that started this whole thread. Saying "nah, it's just filler" is kinda anti-doyle IMHO.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ---- why did JIM have Mab steal the rod and mess with his memmories? it wasnt for plot or tension, having mab say "you are being traced by your fire magic; therefore, you may cast no evocations" would have done that better and easier.
--- End quote ---
One could say the same thing for Mab fixing LC - why not simply tell Harry?
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ---- why the long discussion- not on time travel, btw, but on precognition- and the rather extreme lenghts you would have to go to change a propechy? - Because Mab is the one changing time.
--- End quote ---
1) At the risk of repeating myself, the OP was just about seeing Thomas.
2) You seem to be contradicting yourself - it can't be about time travel because the conversation is about precog, but then Mab changed time?
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ---- why the refences in TC to a tarp? or a headache caused by 'two icicles shoved in my brain?'
--- End quote ---
Tarp - simpler way of saying "I tried using LC but it didn't work". Same way he mentions "that clear shelf with a skull and steamy novels" every time he goes down to the lab.
Mouse-Headache - Someone controlling his brain. Remember, he had been having those headaches for the last couple of months. If you want to say it's Mab, you'll have explain why he had the headache the morning before Morgan dropped in on him.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ----thomas let someone in does not buy it for me. who? and why would he let them in? Thomas is a whampire lord- they dont get much more paranoid than that. I cant see gatekeeper coming up with some explanation thomas would accept. About the only person wed let in would be Justine, and she wasnt doing much at the moment.
--- End quote ---
Thomas letting someone in is one explanation for the scene. The Doyle part doesn't say anything more than "meeting Thomas at the front door is important".
Other possibilities:
- As pointed out, Future Harry might have fooled Thomas long enough.
- Murhpy - Thomas knows her. She could vouch for someone else (say Molly?)
- Heck, Future Thomas could have showed up with someone in tow.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ----any future harry, thomas, or maggie jr would not need to be let in.
--- End quote ---
True, but all we're trying to solve is why that scene with Thomas was written. If e.g. Future Harry meets Thomas, (on the way out), and we read about it in some later book, then this scene makes sense (first foreshadowing of future encounter).
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ----Jim has mentioned that one of the reasons not to do a story from Mouses' pov is that he knows toom much. what, exactly? How about what the person who did it smelled like?
--- End quote ---
I believe that's stretching it. You're are really saying that the only reason Jim couldn't write a Mouse POV story is because Mouse happened to have smelled who came in to fix LC? I think it would be simple for Jim to simply not have that specific memory/thought come up during the course of the story.
More likely, it's that Mouse is clued in to any number of important facts, and it would be hard to write something from Mouse's POV without bringing up any of those.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ----and yes, i do think you need to consider the books as a whole, Take the belts for example- the clues about the erlking were not until much later. and it still is not resolved as to WHY ek may have done it. hence the other clues about marcone, hendricks, and odin.
--- End quote ---
First of all, many - maybe even most of the books have multiple little-connected plots running through them (e.g. Ortega and Nic). Not everything has to connect.
Secondly, I personally don't give much credit to the Erlking == hexunbelts theory. The only thing going for it is the NN-proximity of the local FBI building to Erl's domain, something that can be explained by congruence. Against this you've got:
- Erlking doesn't really seem the type to use these sneaky types of plans.
- Someone explicitly warned the FBI agents about the White Council, and about shifting the blame to Loupy. I simply don't see the Erlking caring.
- Hexunwulf are black magic type items. While it wouldn't surprise me much if the Erlking
could make such a belt, his magic seems "natural" - i.e. just like the fear generated by the Fetches - I don't think it's black magic. Furthermore, they tap into demons for control. It doesn't feel correct.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on April 04, 2012, 06:03:04 PM ----perhaps thomas let someone in. who? why? how did they get past? what clues have been dropped? were all the clues in PG? Somehow I doubt the last one.
--- End quote ---
Not sure what you're saying here. I also doubt the clues were all in PG. Same as for your theories - the clues are spread out over the books.
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