The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[Spolers Through GS] Maggie LeFay and the Outsiders
knnn:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 29, 2011, 07:12:33 PM ---IIRC, Eb refers to Justin duMorne as an associate of Maggie's in BR.
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{quick look up on Amazon "look inside".}
You do remember correctly. Thanks.
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: LordDresden on August 29, 2011, 06:51:30 PM ---Luccio makes a reference to the time when Margaret disappeared for 5 years, presumably that was the period when she was with Raith, or at least that's what Luccio says to Harry. According to Ebenezar, the hunt for Margaret by the Wardens was during and after that period, and that is precisely what Luccio doesn't mention. Luccio acts upset by Margaret's selfishness with regard to Thomas, but totally ignores her warlock-dom. Which is...kind of freakin' odd for the Captain of the Wardens.
--- End quote ---
Myself, I see this weirdness as entirely the result of the two of them being in a car, as a couple who are dating and sleeping together, and Luccio finding herself in the position of having to talk to her boyfriend about his mother, whom he never knew and knows little about, when Luccio herself was the person who was in charge of hunting the woman down and executing her at the end of her life. The weirdness isn't that Luccio is the Captain of the Wardens and she's saying the things she's saying, it's because she's the Captain of the Wardens, and she's trying to figure out how to talk about the subject without it turning into a whole huge thing about her trying to execute her boyfriend's mom.
I mean, that situation is bound to be awkward. What would you have said if you were in her place? Would you have gone off on how much of a warlock she was, when you knew that wasn't what your date wanted to know about their mother? Hell, Luccio may have still been sort of hoping to get laid that night. You have to keep things in perspective.
Winter Warden:
Alright, I'm going to sidestep the whole was Maggie evil for most of her life or not debate, as I think that we are a bit short on evidence to reach a conclusion, in favour of trying to set up an approximate Maggie Dresden timeline based upon what we know in order to clarify some of these issues.
According to the DF timeline thread, Maggie is over 100 years old when she becomes involved with Lord Raith. Thus, as Thomas was born 34-35 years pre-SF and she was presumably involved with Lord Raith at least a couple of years before his birth, let's say that she hooked up with Raith 37-40 years pre-SF, as, if Raith is a WC vampire, then I would assume that they were having a lot of sex. So, as a ballpark figure, let's say that she was born around 150 years pre-SF (I know that you said it should be more like 180-200 years per-SF AA, but I'm not familiar with the WoJ you are citing).
~ 150 BSF
Maggie born
~ 140 BSF
Maggie manifests a talent around the same age as Harry according to WoJ, so probably she's 10-12 years old. Presumably, as she was was Ebenezar's daughter, he finds out fairly quickly and soon takes her as an apprentice.
~ 135-130 BSF
Maggie's apprenticeship ends. Feeling resentful of Eb's strict training, she sets off one her own.
Between 130 BSF and 50 BSF
At some point in this period, Maggie gains knowledge of the Ways surpassing that of any other living wizard, so she is probably spending a lot of time there at some point. If her abilities were well-known enough that people were calling her Maggie LeFay, she presumably had them at least 10 years before she went warlock. most likely, if she came to be widely known by this name, she had this ability far longer (maybe by 100 BSF). In this period, she is not being hunted by the wardens. We don't know whether she is breaking the laws without anyone else noticing, but, at the very least, she is reveling in what the council considers grey magic, including (probably) things like summoning demons, as Chaunzaggoroth says that "Many in the underworld were … familiar with her." To be honest, she might also been involved with Raith later in this period, as I am not aware of any source which tells us when their relationship began, so take the later date with a grain of salt. According to Luccio, she advocated for change in the White Council during this period, wanting the Laws of Magic to embrace concepts of justice. Presumably she was also associated with DuMorne in this period, as, since DuMorne was a known associate of Maggie and a warden, they must have met before she was a fugitive from White Council justice.
~ 40 BSF
Maggie becomes involved in a relationship with Raith. As I have said, this date may be off, so take it with a grain of salt.
Sometime around the beginning of Maggie/Raith and before Thomas' birth (so before 35 BSF)
“A dinner. Maggie—my Maggie—asked me to a dinner. She’d just taken up with that Raith bastard. Arianna was there. Maggie didn’t warn me. They had some scheme they wanted my support on. The vampires thought I was just Maggie’s mentor, then.” He sighed. “I wanted nothing to do with it. Said she shouldn’t want it, either. And we fought.”
Maggie is involved in some sort of scheme with Raith which Eb refuses to support and discourages (this could be something to do with the Black Council, although that is, of course, speculation). It is worth noting, however, that as Eb is not under orders to kill Maggie during this period, she cannot have openly broken the Laws of Magic yet (although, as noted earlier, she might have done so secretly). She might also have done terrible things prior to this point which did not violate the Laws of Magic, as Chaunzaggoroth says that "her coming was awaited with great anticipation." Again, this is just speculation, as she might have not done anything truly horrible until a little bit later. We have scant evidence one way or the other.
34-35 BSF
Thomas is born. Maggie imprisoned in the Chateau Raith. Most of the council believes that she has run afoul of something in the NeverNever according to Luccio (as Luccio says that she disappeared for 4-5 years, she cannot have been imprisoned too long before Thomas' conception).
29-30 BSF
Maggie escapes Raith when Thomas is about 5 years old. According to Eb, "she turned away from her previous associates-including Justin DuMorne. After that, nowhere was safe for her. She ran from her former allies and from the Wardens for perhaps two years. And she ran from me. I had my orders regarding her as well."
28-29 BSF
Maggie meets Malcolm Dresden.
27-28 BSF
Maggie is killed by Raith.
Thinking about this timeline, two important points occur to me. Firstly, if Maggie redeemed herself, then she was only doing so in those last two years when she was on the run. Moreover, as Eb "had [his] orders" regarding her in this period, but was free to meet with her when she began her relationship with Raith, Maggie must have only begun openly breaking the Laws of Magic while she was with Raith (and before Thomas was born, as the White Council did not know where she was after Thomas' birth). According to Eb, "she was guilty of violating the First Law, among others," so Maggie must have been a pretty busy law breaker while she was together with Raith.
Also, I know some people consider Luccio's testimony suspect, but I think that this timeline is consistent with everything we have heard from all the various sources of information on this subject. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: Winter Warden on August 29, 2011, 09:17:08 PM ---According to the DF timeline thread, Maggie is over 100 years old when she becomes involved with Lord Raith. Thus, as Thomas was born 34-35 years pre-SF and she was presumably involved with Lord Raith at least a couple of years before his birth, let's say that she hooked up with Raith 37-40 years pre-SF, as, if Raith is a WC vampire, then I would assume that they were having a lot of sex. So, as a ballpark figure, let's say that she was born around 150 years pre-SF (I know that you said it should be more like 180-200 years per-SF AA, but I'm not familiar with the WoJ you are citing).
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I got it from here:
--- Quote ---Q: "Are we ever going to meet Margaret LeFey's Mother?"
A: "She was a mortal, and died somewhere around 1810. We'd only meet her if we go back to the French and Indian War [referencing his earlier statement that he has considered writing books from back during the French and Indian War"
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After which I said:
So, if we assume 1810 as the last year Maggie LeFay could have been born, and sometime around 1970 or so as the year she died, then Maggie LeFay was, at minimum, 160 years old at the time of her death. She could've been as much as 80 or 90 years older than that, but she couldn't have been any younger.
svb1972:
Maggie LaFey died in 1972.
We know this, because 1972 is Harry and Jim's (and mine) birth year.
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