The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[Spolers Through GS] Maggie LeFay and the Outsiders
svb1972:
Luccio is being mind-scr00ged by the Black Council at this point. There are many possible options for what's going on.
1) Luccio is being edited.
2) Ebenezar is Black Council and lying to Harry.
come to mind as the two most likely.
The problem comes from the fact that Morgan is all "like Mother like Son." "Your mother was a Warlock and SO ARE YOU." Is something Morgan implies at least once, if not multiple times.
Luccio's account is weird, and Harry ignoring it is doubly weird. Harry could be wishful thinking it. hard to say.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: LordDresden on August 29, 2011, 06:51:30 PM ---Luccio makes a reference to the time when Margaret disappeared for 5 years, presumably that was the period when she was with Raith, or at least that's what Luccio says to Harry. According to Ebenezar, the hunt for Margaret by the Wardens was during and after that period, and that is precisely what Luccio doesn't mention. Luccio acts upset by Margaret's selfishness with regard to Thomas, but totally ignores her warlock-dom. Which is...kind of freakin' odd for the Captain of the Wardens.
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Might we want to file this with the more numerous internal inconsistencies between GS and the rest of the series as clues to something Jim is doing deliberately ?
knnn:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 29, 2011, 04:51:01 PM ---I would note that the only people not provably linked to the Maggie/Justin/Lord R cabal
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Could someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the only connection between Justin and Lord Raith was the fact that they both called up HHWB. Given that GS sheds some doubt on the whole "Justin calling up HHWB", is this point still strongly suggested?
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on August 29, 2011, 06:57:55 PM ---Might we want to file this with the more numerous internal inconsistencies between GS and the rest of the series as clues to something Jim is doing deliberately ?
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Second the motion.
AcornArmy:
--- Quote from: LordDresden on August 29, 2011, 06:04:58 PM ---No, it blatantly contradicts it.
According to Ebenezar, Margaret was a warlock on the run from the Council, and under a literal death sentence.
According to Luccio, Margaret was a misguided idealist who the Wardens had been assigned to watch, and nothing more. No mention of her being a warlock, no mention of a death sentence from Luccio.
....
Further, the accounts other than Luccio's say that the dark period of her life came first, then, at the very end, came something better.
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I think you're taking much too strict a view of the mentions of Maggie's life, and saying, "Here she was evil, here she was good." It was probably never that cut and dried. Maggie lived for at least 160 years, according to WoJ about the time of her mother's death. Early on she lived with Ebenezer. Was she evil then? She ran off and started learning things on her own, doing things on her own, and earned the name of "LeFay." Clearly, other wizards had contact with her during that period, because they knew who she was and what she could do well enough to give her a nickname. Was she evil then?
According to Ebenezer's own words, he had dinner with Maggie, Lord Raith, and Duchess Arianna, shortly after Maggie started seeing Lord Raith. Was she being hunted by the White Council then?
You are not taking everything into account. You're saying that Maggie may have been decent at the end of her life, but before then, she must have been evil, or at least worthy of being classified as a warlock. This just doesn't make sense. Maggie lived a long time, and for most of that time, she was probably a pain in Council's ass, but not actually considered a warlock. This fits with both Ebenezer's story and what Luccio said. She then took up with Raith, began taking a darker path, and things came to a head with the White Council. We don't know how long she was with Lord Raith, but we do know that that period took up the end of her life, except for a couple of years at the very end. And those last couple of years she changed her mind and tried to correct some of her mistakes, as she told Harry in his soulgaze with Thomas.
It seems to me that the simplest and most correct way to look at Maggie's life, given that she was a human being and not a piece of litmus paper, is to think of her as being somewhat wild and gray-tinged for most of her life, then hooking up with Raith and turning darker, and finally coming to her senses at the very end and trying to correct her earlier mistakes.
--- Quote from: Cozarkian on August 29, 2011, 06:23:07 PM ---Luccio seems to be talking about only a part of Maggie Sr.'s life, the part when Luccio knew her. The stories seem completely compatible.
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This is exactly what I was saying.
--- Quote from: Cozarkian on August 29, 2011, 06:23:07 PM ---I don't think Luccio had any reason in the context of that particular conversation to mention "Oh by the way, after your Mom discovered she couldn't change the WC, she went psycho and we had to put a death sentence on her." In fact, I think it would have been rather insulting to Harry, because it would have been suggesting he was headed down the same path.
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Exactly, I agree entirely. They were seeing each other romantically. Why bother bringing up the fact that his mother was considered a warlock whom the Council wanted dead? Luccio was answering his question in the way that he really meant, which was a request for information about who his mother was, not about the information on her Most Wanted poster. Despite whatever else Maggie may have been, she was his mother, and he never had the chance to know her. Luccio was trying to help fill in that gap.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: knnn on August 29, 2011, 07:02:38 PM ---Could someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the only connection between Justin and Lord Raith was the fact that they both called up HHWB. Given that GS sheds some doubt on the whole "Justin calling up HHWB", is this point still strongly suggested?
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IIRC, Eb refers to Justin duMorne as an associate of Maggie's in BR.
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