My Wards

[MegaPuff75]

I had an idea for a ward that included a conjuration spell to create a half dozen armed guardians to attack intruders if the ward is breached. I figured the summoning would be a complexity of base 5 for a moving construct+ 1 to make them human size+ 2 for quantity for a total 8 added onto the complexity of the ward. Would this work and how could I stat out the guardians?

[MegaPuff75]

Actually I was looking at Constructs in OW and I was wondering if it would be possible for me to create True Golems that are activated by the wards?

[sinker]

There has been a lot of talk about summoning and construct creation. I think this is the most complete/best thread.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23624.0.html

General consensus is that it's not that simple. Most of the thought is that summoning 1 thing (or a handful of very weak things) should be up in the 40-50 range, but a few of the systems allow for summoning with a complexity of 5-15. It also depends on what you want. If you want a fully functional golem that is capable of doing many different things then you need to flesh it out. If you want one thing done then you're just using the "Solving improbable or impossible tasks" bit of thaumaturgy and flavoring it as a summon or construct.

[Belial666]

Do note that you can "cheat" and lower complexity;

1) Add the ward you want to your house.
2) Add a landmine summoning (but NOT controlling) the summoned creature in question. Summon without control is cheap and there isn't a limit to how many landmines you can add in a place.
3) Add a second landmine per summoned creature landmine to bind it.
4) Add another landmine that contains a new ward that activates as soon as the original falls.

A 40-shift summon and control spell is actually harder to do than a 20-shift summon spell and a separate 20-shift control spell that are tied to activate together. And a 40-shift attack spell in a landmine is a lot harder than 4 landmines of 10-shift attacks each.
So given enough time, using this technique, you can layer many, many spells and defenses on your stronghold. Wards that pop back up after being brought down (or that blast anyone that brings them down), summoned creatures, and whatever else you want.

[Sanctaphrax]

@Belial: Are you sure that you can cast landmines separately from the base ward?

@MegaPuff75: Summaries of multiple summoning systems can be found here: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24744.45.html

I'd be willing to write a spell up for you if you find the above systems hard to grasp.

[MegaPuff75]

So from what I'm reading, if I want a group of what are essentially guard dogs to be conjured if someone pierces my ward it would have a cost dependent on the stats for the dogs, lets say good endurance and might plus a mild and moderate consequence inhuman toughness, speed, and strength, so that would be 6 for powers 6 for consequences and like 6 for skills plus 2ish to make them combat capable, and like 15 to have six of them for a total of 35, and then simply throw that on the ward as a landmine? If I read the ward section correctly if I apply the conjuration as a part of the ward it should activate any time the requirement is met in this case a breach or maybe an attack of sufficient strength. Also if I put a limit on how far they could move away from the ward would it reduce the complexity because they are not able to act as freely?

[Tedronai]

@Belial: Are you sure that you can cast landmines separately from the base ward?

Landmines are added as part of the same ritual that creates the ward itself.

Landmines—nasty, damaging spells that are
triggered on a breach—add complexity equal to
the power of the evocation spell stored within
the ward."

[Sanctaphrax]

I think that landmines only go off when someone breaches the ward. Other conditions would require homebrewing rules.

It is difficult for me to understand your question about the guard dogs. Which system are you using? And what stats do they have other than those you've mentioned?

Not being able to leave the area could be a defect, I suppose.

[Tedronai]

It would be reasonable to state that non-breach triggers would simply add an additional 2 complexity (or more for more complex triggers)

[MegaPuff75]

It would seem that all the methods seem to overcharge for extra creatures conjured, the book seems to imply that the added complexity is a factor of size and quantity combined so summoning a dog the size of a bus would cost the same as summoning a dozen dogs that add up to the size of a bus, since all the individual constructs exist under the same rules all you are really doing is using more energy to replicate the exact effect multiple times requiring only more energy not more consideration from the caster. so based on that half a dozen dogs about 4x6x2 at would add up to roughly the size of an SUV which would only be about one step up in size from a normal car would mean a +4 for more than just one, from that creating the guardians as such

High concept: Conjured guardian
Skills: +3 might, endurance
+2 fists, intimidation
+1 Alertness, Athletics
Powers: Claws, Inhuman toughness/speed/strength
1 mild and 1 moderate consequence

using the Fred Hicks method http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23624.15.html the final cost would be 6 for stress+6 for consequences + 10 for powers (not paying for toughness twice) you get 22+4 for quantity with duration already worked into the ward add 2 to have a condition and it would be built in similar to how you could build in any other spell effect (like a divination as is suggested in YS) becomes 28+8 for the basic power of the ward+4 for other conditions+10 shifts to increase duration to a decade makes for a 50 shift ward total.

[wraith1986]

Ask your GM, if they say yes, then yes. <- RPG's simplified

[Belial666]

@Landmines:
That's why you add a second ward of complexity 1-2, as an "alarm" spell and then you add the Landmine to it. 

[ways and means]

I would have fought that you would summon a creature before the wards bind it or make an agreement with it so that it protects your gates and then have a special effect in the subsequent ward that awakes it.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'd recommend not using Hicks' method, because I dislike it.

Also, I disapprove of your method of handling multiple summonings. The complexity is based on the effect that you get out of the spell, and multiple creatures are a significantly better effect than one. So they should require a significantly higher complexity.

Besides, you should take into account the increased complexity (not the game term) of multiple creatures compared to a single one.

[Belial666]

If an enemy wizard goes ahead and blasts at your wards without thinking a bit, the tentacles will be their problem. If that same wizard uses Lore to realize you have multiple low-power spells defending your place, he goes ahead and casts a disjunction (big area dispel) and takes them all out at once. I.e. five 15-shift spells on the same zone need a 17-shift counterspell to remove.  One 25-shift spell needs a 25-shift counterspell to remove.


That's one of the drawbacks of using multiple smaller spells. There are many others. So, those who want to protect their house should look closely at what they're doing; all it takes is one magic-savvy warlock finding a single weakness to unravel carefully-prepared defenses with ease.