Counterspelling

[KOFFEYKID]

I was looking at counterspelling and decided that its not quite up to snuff, I mean Im sure its useful but it doesn't seem worth specializing in, sort of how transportation and worldwalking feels like a bad investment every time I read through it.

Figuring that maybe some stunt love is what is needed to get it on track, I worked these up. What do you guys think? Any other ideas on how to make counterspelling useful?

Wizarding Duelist. Whenever you Counterspell a spell you may sacrifice your next turn in order to immediately return fire with an Evocation of your own.

Efficient Counterspeller. You are extremely adept at counterspelling magical effects. Whenever you attempt to counter a spell you may treat your attack on the spell as having +2 shifts of power.

[DFJunkie]

I've toyed with the idea of allowing people with Evocation or Channeling to take a Discipline stunt that allows them to defend against magical attacks with Discipline.  That could be another way to handle counterspelling.

[Warpmind]

I was looking at counterspelling and decided that its not quite up to snuff, I mean Im sure its useful but it doesn't seem worth specializing in, sort of how transportation and worldwalking feels like a bad investment every time I read through it.

Figuring that maybe some stunt love is what is needed to get it on track, I worked these up. What do you guys think? Any other ideas on how to make counterspelling useful?

Wizarding Duelist. Whenever you Counterspell a spell you may sacrifice your next turn in order to immediately return fire with an Evocation of your own.

Efficient Counterspeller. You are extremely adept at counterspelling magical effects. Whenever you attempt to counter a spell you may treat your attack on the spell as having +2 shifts of power.

Important thing to consider: Will these stunts be based on Conviction or Willpower?The former of those two examples might be either (though I'm inclined to say Discipline for that one), while the latter is certainly Conviction-based.

That said, I can think of another appliccable stunt - under Conviction, methinks:

Not On MY Watch You have a remarkable affinity for interfering with other spellcasters. Whenever someone is casting a spell in your presence - Evocation, Thaumaturgy, whatever - you can sacrifice your next action to immediately impede the spellcaster with a dampening effect - rolling as normal to Counterspell, but instead of cancelling out any effect, block a number of shifts of Power equal to what you yourself thrust into the Counterspell. For example a Firebolt cast with 7 Shifts of Power and a Discipline of 7, faced with a Counterspell at 6 Shifts of Power is reduced to a single Shift of Power... Still enough to sting an unfortunate target, but less likely to incinerate on the spot...

[DFJunkie]

Counterspelling: You may use Discipline as a defense against Evocation or Channeling effects.

Overpowered? 

[Kommisar]

Very powerful. 

There would not be a single reason that every wizard (or any other caster type) should pass up taking a stunt allowing that.  Wizards already need to have a high Discipline to control and target their magic.  Now, that score also gives them an automatic high defense against any evocation spell.  Sure, it isn't going to help against a Big-Gun spell of 10 shifts or higher.  But, few things do besides good block.

[Tedronai]

Perhaps with the additional caveat that a successful defense counts as their next action, and a failed defense counts as having taken a supplemental action during their next turn?

[devonapple]

Counterspelling: You may use Discipline as a defense against Evocation or Channeling effects.

I'm thinking out loud, but the defender's level of magical ability might need to be a factor, too. Casters who only have Channelling as well as this feat might be limited to reflexively Counterspelling effects with a strong thematic link to their Channeling theme/element. I would then determine that spellcasters with full Evocation would have no such restrictions.

[DFJunkie]

Very powerful. 

Kind of situational really.  I mean, if it allowed the use of Discipline as a dodge against any attack that would be absurd, but depending on how frequently PCs are the target of Evocation effects it could almost never come into play.  Also, consider that it would be taken en lieu of another Specialization when comparing relative power level.  To take Harrry's life as an example I have trouble thinking of any situation where it would have been useful at least through book 5.

I'm thinking out loud, but the defender's level of magical ability might need to be a factor, too.

I was thinking of putting something to that effect into the text, but the poor channelers are already kind of screwed.  If I'm playing a character with Channeling and one point of refresh I would have to be very committed to my concept to not buy it up to full blown Evocation instead.  IMO if you add that additional restriction it becomes a pretty bad stunt unless the PCs consistently face spellcasters.

[Tedronai]

Kind of situational really.  I mean, if it allowed the use of Discipline as a dodge against any attack that would be absurd, but depending on how frequently PCs are the target of Evocation effects it could almost never come into play.  Also, consider that it would be taken en lieu of another Specialization when comparing relative power level.  To take Harrry's life as an example I have trouble thinking of any situation where it would have been useful at least through book 5.

Confrontation with the Shadowman
Confrontation with Mavra
Confrontation outside Bock's (been too long since I read that one, spelling might be off)
Confrontation with whats-her-name the disciple of Kemmler in that alley wherever it was [ (okay, okay, I'm already re-reading the series)
the aquarium incident
...
did the confrontation with Shagnasty on the hilltop include Dresden-bound evocations?  I don't recall

[devonapple]

I was thinking of putting something to that effect into the text, but the poor channelers are already kind of screwed.  If I'm playing a character with Channeling and one point of refresh I would have to be very committed to my concept to not buy it up to full blown Evocation instead.  IMO if you add that additional restriction it becomes a pretty bad stunt unless the PCs consistently face spellcasters.

Yes, I concede. But I took no consequences in the discussion, so no Fate Points for me.

[DFJunkie]

Fine, so we're still talking about all of Fool Moon and Grave Peril at the very least where it would have sat around collecting dust.  I don't think that's particularly overpowered compared to a Specialization.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

   One thing to consider is the probability that counterspelling was deliberately made to be hard to pull off. In the novels, Harry vary seldom even tries to counterspell. And when he describes how it works, it sounds very hard and dangerous. You have to gauge exactly how much power was put into the initial spell when you try to counter. If you put too little juice into the counter, it does nothing. If you put too much, it causes unpredictable side effects.
    Basically, you have to blindly guess at how many shifts the initial spell has and put that many shifts in the counter. Not enough shifts and its worthless, too many and the extra is fallout.
    You could make a stunt that gives you bonuses to determining the power of spells, that would help make counterspells more useful.

[devonapple]

If you put too little juice into the counter, it does nothing. If you put too much, it causes unpredictable side effects.
    Basically, you have to blindly guess at how many shifts the initial spell has and put that many shifts in the counter. Not enough shifts and its worthless, too many and the extra is fallout.
    You could make a stunt that gives you bonuses to determining the power of spells, that would help make counterspells more useful.

The player does get a Lore check to determine the shifts needed. Per YS 253: "Figuring this out requires an assessment action (which is a free action, so you can do it just before you intend to counterspell) using Lore." The example pits the counterspeller's Lore against the spellcaster's Discipline, but for special circumstances the GM is probably free to change the opposed skill.

Also, I know they *say* overshooting is a problem, but I'm not inclined to actually make a penalty for doing so over and above the existing Fallout/Backlash rules.

[Drachasor]

Also, I know they *say* overshooting is a problem, but I'm not inclined to actually make a penalty for doing so over and above the existing Fallout/Backlash rules.

Having overshooting the power cause fallout wouldn't be that bad though.  It isn't like you'll overshoot by a half-dozen stress.

However, this whole thing leaves an interesting case regarding magical items like Warden Swords.  I suppose one should assume they hit the mark precisely as long as the sword has sufficient shifts to dispel.