McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Display Case
DISPROVE THIS
Curly:
--- Quote from: Curly ---Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want?
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--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 03:14:51 PM ---
So you'd rape a woman because you desire her and you are able to physically overpower her?
Cause thats where that logic leads. ::)
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Curly on June 02, 2010, 03:49:34 PM ---That's quite a leap. Care to explicit your "logic" for those of us with shorter mental legs?
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--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 04:25:51 PM ---
You quoted it and so did I: Who would not use whatsoever power they had (like say physical strength) to get what they want (sex with a particular woman.)?
--- End quote ---
Yep, it had been posted twice and you still failed to understand.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 04:25:51 PM ---The word WHATSOEVER puts no limits on means. The phrase "what they want" puts no limits on certain outcomes. That means you could use any means to achieve any goal (in this instance physical strength to force sexual intercourse).
Thats the problem with making absolute statements. I have yet to see one that fits every situation (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it)
--- End quote ---
Indeed.
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 04:25:51 PM ---We don't even have to use rape as an example if it makes you uncomfortable.
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I don't see any need to further complicate things. Let's stick with your rape example.
So. How does "logic" lead you from "Who never uses..." to me being a rapist? And how would me being a rapist change the validity of my belief that people are already savage animals, that giving one power through a Darkhallow would fundamentally change their nature?
ballplayer72:
--- Quote from: Curly on June 02, 2010, 05:05:47 PM --- Yep, it had been posted twice and you still failed to understand.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Who never uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want. Indeed. I don't see any need to further complicate things. Let's stick with your rape example.
So. How does "logic" lead you from "Who never uses..." to me being a rapist? And how would me being a rapist change the validity of my belief that people are already savage animals, that giving one power through a Darkhallow would fundamentally change their nature?
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Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
Ive already explained it to you dude. I'm not calling you a rapist, its simply an example to show you where your "everyone acts like THIS" fails. Because not everyone rapes or murders people because they can. Shit dude its not difficult.
Reil:
--- Quote from: svb1972 on June 02, 2010, 03:46:28 PM ---actually the only evidence we have that Angels(Fallen or otherwise) are from before time is /maybe/ Lash saying she was around for Millennium before those little upstarts men. But Lash is about as reliable as a pathological liar.
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And Thorned Namshiel, who has the same reliability problem.
I'm trying to think if Mab has ever said anything relating to this. I remember her complaining about time and wondering if there would ever be an end to it, which strikes me as rather ironic in and of itself, but the only time I can remember her talking about angels was when she complemented Uriel's style.
Curly:
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 05:10:43 PM ---Who NEVER uses whatsoever power they have to get what they want? = Who wouldn't use whatsoever power they have to get what they want.
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No, it doesn't quite mean that, but let's call it close enough.
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 05:10:43 PM ---Ive already explained it to you dude.
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Not very well, I'm afraid.
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 05:10:43 PM --- I'm not calling you a rapist,
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Of course you aren't, that would be rude :D
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 05:10:43 PM ---its simply an example to show you where your "everyone acts like THIS" fails.
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It is a poor one. I didn't specify a kind of power to be used. Therefore excluding one particular one does not negate people using whatsoever power - that is to say any power in their possesion - to acheive their goals.
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 05:10:43 PM --- Because not everyone rapes or murders people because they can.
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Because many people can't. Or won't. But are , in my opinion, savage animals, psychopaths, if you will, who enjoy using power over each other. Which was the point I original made, to which you respond by rhetorically asking me if I'm a potential rapist. I'm still not sure what this "logic" you were speaking about is. Nor am I convinced that being a rapist has any bearing on claim. It seems rather like a non sequitur
--- Quote from: ballplayer72 on June 02, 2010, 05:10:43 PM ---Shit dude its not difficult.
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No, it's probably not.
"Who never wears a sweater"
"Dude, you'd never wear a blue sweater, would you?"
"Um, no, what does that have to do with wearing a sweater?"
*I am, in fact, aware that not everybody choose that particular form of dress.
ballplayer72:
--- Quote from: Curly on June 02, 2010, 05:33:45 PM --- No, it doesn't quite mean that, but let's call it close enough. Not very well, I'm afraid.
Of course you aren't, that would be rude :D It is a poor one. I didn't specify a kind of power to be used. Therefore excluding one particular one does not negate people using whatsoever power - that is to say any power in their possesion - to acheive their goals. Because many people can't. Or won't. But are , in my opinion, savage animals, psychopaths, if you will, who enjoy using power over each other. Which was the point I original made, to which you respond by rhetorically asking me if I'm a potential rapist. I'm still not sure what this "logic" you were speaking about is. Nor am I convinced that being a rapist has any bearing on claim. It seems rather like a non sequitur
No, it's probably not.
"Who never wears a sweater"
"Dude, you'd never wear a blue sweater, would you?"
"Um, no, what does that have to do with wearing a sweater?"
*I am, in fact, aware that not everybody choose that particular form of dress.
--- End quote ---
Dude. Really. Cmon. Youre making a big deal out of something thats small. You made a blanket statement that I disproved.
People don't use any means available to accomplish any goal. The simple fact that youve never robbed an ATM (using that brute physical strength, a simple hammer or rock, and a modicum of intelligence, or even hacked the thing if you knew how) when you needed money, or raped someone (using either brute force, or drugs) when you wanted sex and couldn't find a consenting partner, is rather telling. People have limits to what they are willing to do.
What you describe (will commit any action or use any means to accomplish any goal that strikes their fancy) is a classic sociopath. Someone completely without restraint. For them the simple fact that they CAN do something means they are entitled to do it, should they wish to.
This is not the case for normal people (ie those without a serious psychological disorder).
Now you may say that people will use any means to accomplish certain SPECIFIC goals. For instance, I would do anything (and I do mean ANYTHING) to protect my child. I would not however do ANYTHING (meaning you name it and i'll do it) for a klondike bar. I want both of those things, yet theres only one I'm willing to go balls to the wall for. And its not the sweet icecreamy treat with the catchy theme song.
However according to your logic (that people always use every available method to accomplish getting what they want) I would do ANYTHING for a klondike bar. After all, I want it don't I? But I have no money or any way to get any. Perhaps I should just steal the klondike bar then. And if the clerk tries to stop me? I'll beat him up.
Ive just described using all things in my power (simply taking it even though it doesn't belong to me and Ive no money to purchase it, and beating up the rightful owner when he tries to stop me) to get what I want (in this case a delicious klondike bar).
Are you seeing the problem now? Most people WON"T just take it because they "want" it. Even though it is surely in their power, and they surely desire it, most people won't commit a wide variety of acts they find to be morally abhorrant to obtain the object of said desire. Even if they COULD theoretically commit such acts. Meaning that even though its IN THEIR POWER they don't USE THAT POWER. Happens all the time. You can tell by how society generally functions and doesn't revert to state of nature. (which is kinda what youre talking about, but not really applicable if youre talking about any group of humans that exist as a society and not as individual animals beating each other with rocks for survivial.)
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