The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Duels between mortal Practitioners and the Law of Magic
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: meh on April 28, 2010, 04:35:26 PM ---mindream can install complete belief /easy/. And the originating practitioner completely believes in mindreaming nonhuman monsters.
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I think you misunderstand, I'm talking about the one using mind-control, not the victim. To program someone (even a monster) to commit murder requires the same commitment to murder as directly killing someone with magic...and thus gives you Lawbreaker (First). Though not Lawbreaker (Fourth) since you're doing it to a monster.
Also, not to spoil anything, but have you read Turn Coat? Instilling complete belief is pretty much impossible.
Though it is, admittedly, gonna be fairly easy to get a Red Court Vampire to kill someone.
KOFFEYKID:
You dont have to program it to kill somebody, you just have to program it to follow your orders. Thats all.
Falar:
You know, I think that even if your GM ruled it wasn't a direct break of the Fourth or First Law to do that, I think the Wardens would more or less be on your case 24/7 once they found out that you were doing something like that. If you can do that to a supernatural creature, whose mind doesn't even work like a human's, it means you have all the more likelihood of pulling it off on a human, whose mind you actually know how works.
Heck, if I were Senior Council, I might have you executed on a suspicion of wrongdoing. Or a well-intentioned mistake that saw the Red Court Vampire you're enthralling as a human and did The Right Thing. And not to mention pulling something like that would probably break the Accords if you pulled it on most connected bad things.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: meh on April 28, 2010, 04:37:22 PM ---The possibilty of existence of an item that can mask intent from consequence negates the following:
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What? How is using an item we know nothing about as an example NOT useless and silly? For all we know the Blackstaff can't be switched from one owner to another. Or makes unicorns appear on the moon. We have no idea what it does. If I started to use Tiania as a Dresden Files example of anything, it'd be silly, because we don't know shit aboit her. Same deal with the Blackstaff.
--- Quote from: KOFFEYKID on April 28, 2010, 04:38:23 PM ---Meh is right, all you have to do is Mindrape some supernat critter, and make it utterly devoted to you, and your protection. Then just have it guard you. No 4th lawbreaker since its not a human, and you can give it commands verbally (without magic) to kill and avoid a 1st lawbreaker.
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Eh. If you make it so devoted to protecting you it'll kill people, well, there's almost no way you didn't know that was going to happen eventually. Lawbreaker (First), right there.
And, as Falar mentions, there's the whole "The Wardens will kill you." thing.
meh:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 28, 2010, 04:39:49 PM ---I think you misunderstand, I'm talking about the one using mind-control, not the victim. To program someone (even a monster) to commit murder requires the same commitment to murder as directly killing someone with magic...and thus gives you Lawbreaker (First). Though not Lawbreaker (Fourth) since you're doing it to a monster.
--- End quote ---
So everyone with intent to kill but not applying magic to the victim at the time of victim death is guilty of First law breaking?
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