The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Dismissing Conjurations (which has turned into another Laws of Magic thread)
iago:
Creating a weapon is not a first law violation. Using a weapon to murder is. (A riff on "guns don't kill people, people do" but I think it's valid.)
Rel Fexive:
I believe the difference between "shoot a fireball" and "conjure a knife, then stab" is that you don't need to summon and direct any magical power to do the actual stabbing, as long as you use your own muscles (or someone else's) rather than flinging it at them with magical force. Because you are not using the fundamental force of magic, directed by your will, to cause death directly then you are not killing with magic, in the sense that anyone could take that knife and use it and not just you.
This is different to "throw someone off a roof with magic and let the fall kill them" because your intent within that spell is to kill; the intent within the conjuration spell is just to create a knife.
This is again different to "conjure an anvil over someone's head and let it drop on them" as the intent within that spell is to create something that will crush and thus kill the target; the intent within the knife conjuration spell is still to simply create a knife.
It's worth bearing in mind that you could conjure a spade to dig a hole (because you're no good at earth magic, maybe?) and then find you have to whack someone upside the head with it. Does it matter if you didn't create a stabbity-stab weapon in the first place but still killed someone with your conjured spade? Or would you suddenly get "penalised" for it? I'd say no - you still don't get a Lawbreaker stunt for killing someone with a conjured object in the context of "I picked it up and hit him with it" because you are not channelling magical force through the lens of your deepest held beliefs in order to do it. There's no special corruption going on, just the regular corruption of the soul that murderers probably get, which isn't covered by the Laws Of Magic.
Of course, it may be different in your games :)
Rel Fexive:
--- Quote from: iago on April 24, 2010, 03:39:06 PM ---Creating a weapon is not a first law violation. Using a weapon to murder is. (A riff on "guns don't kill people, people do" but I think it's valid.)
--- End quote ---
So, looking at my previous post, what if you create something intended for another purpose that you then find yourself having to use as a weapon?
KOFFEYKID:
It doesn't matter what I intend to do with the sword, you want to tie the creation of a thing with the use of a thing, which is different. One can make a sword for more than just killing. What if the intent behind the forging of a sword was for defense? Defense might include killing, but it doesn't have to. Sometimes just having a sword would be enough to stop a fight.
Lets move away from the sword, lets say I conjure a brick. I can use that brick as part of a wall, or I can throw it through somebodies window, or I can use it to bash a skull in. Its just a brick.
--- Quote from: Iago ---Creating a weapon is not a first law violation. Using a weapon to murder is. (A riff on "guns don't kill people, people do" but I think it's valid.)
--- End quote ---
I think the key word here is "murder":
--- Quote from: Dictionary on Murder ---1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
5. Slang To defeat decisively; trounce.
--- End quote ---
So just going out with the intent to kill a human would get you a lawbreaker for using the sword. If while defending yourself with it, it kills a human, well, thats self defense, not murder, and a warden lawfully executing a warlock wouldn't trigger it.
Here is a different example:
Lets say I use my skill In fire Evocation to freeze water into a spike, then I kill somebody with it. Lawbreaker or not?
iago:
--- Quote from: Rel Fexive on April 24, 2010, 03:45:17 PM ---So, looking at my previous post, what if you create something intended for another purpose that you then find yourself having to use as a weapon?
--- End quote ---
The First Law as worded in the books is about killing (requirement #1: the act of taking the life of a human being) with magic (requirement #2).
Creating a magic item (requirement #2) but not killing someone as a part of that creation (failure on requirement #1) does not, for me, violate that law.
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