The Dresden Files > DFRPG
The First Law Question.
Moriden:
Quoting Iago
--- Quote ---Creating a weapon is not a first law violation. Using a weapon to murder is. (A riff on "guns don't kill people, people do" but I think it's valid.)
--- End quote ---
Or as i have repeatedly phrased it, successfully using magic to kill gets you lawbreaker regardless of the description of what that magic looks like, or your intent when you cast the spell.
And yes if you cast the spell to kill someone and fail it should change your aspects just like lawbreaker would you just don't get the actual stunt.
--- Quote ---and the Refresh limit is a general rule, and IMO, usually a good one.
--- End quote ---
I just view it as a flaw in the system[one of the two major ones ive mentioned in other posts] im not fan of narrativistic rules so it just rubs me the wrong way.
--- Quote ---Uh, iago actually responded to this, and I agree with him: to get Lawbreaker you need to work magic. Mundane research is still 'illegal' and gets the Wardens on your ass (unless you're the Gatekeeper) but it doesn't net you Lawbreaker because you're not twisting your soul with magic.
--- End quote ---
He did not however respond to my comment that the gatekeeper not only has done research but has also used that knowledge to cast wards on the outer gates. and to use magic that successfully works against the outsiders would require knowing a goodly bit about them since with the exception of harry they are nigh invulnerable to magic.
Rel Fexive:
I think all the Laws have two components to them, and each one consists of these components in a different ratio. There is:
(a) "does doing this corrupt you in some way, twisting your brain or making you see it as the way to solve all your problems?"
and
(b) "is doing this a really bad idea for everyone?"
It's worth noting that (a) needn't always twist you metaphysically, as long as it encourages a dependency on doing that thing again (represented by a reduction in your ability to resist compels on your aspects by reducing your Refresh). And (b) is more of a "legal" rather than "metaphysical" issue.
I think all the Laws have (b) in them to some degree, but not all of them explicitly have (a) in every instance.
Killing, mind reading, domination, transforming and necromancy all incorporate (a) for sure, I'd say. They are all about Doing Bad Things to other people, even if that was not the intention - although this "intention" thing is a can of squirmy worms, as we are all well aware.
We don't know enough about the time travel one as we haven't seen it used much (only the once, really) - but it could incorporate the "dependency" aspect of (a) while the potential for world-destroying paradox definitely brings in (b) much more.
As for the Outer Gates... I suspect you can have (a) AND/OR (b) here. This is because you could be a nasty guy wanting power and reaching out to the worst possible entities for it, which is corrupting in itself but the Outsiders are probably all about corruption as well - which is (a). But you could be a good guy, not yet tempted by the power they offer but foolishly researching them in order to fight them. This is clearly a Bad Idea (b) and should not be encouraged to avoid the risk of researchers being influenced by the Nasties, yet the 'perpetrator' may not be a bad person at all. In this instance I believe it is possible for someone to research the Outer Gates and Outsiders without getting the Lawbreaker stunt and yet still be tried and executed for breaking the Seventh Law.
The Gatekeeper must be a special case of some kind or surely he would be a raving, power-mad lunatic by now. Either he resists or is perhaps immune to their corrupting influence and has special power over them by dint of knowledge or the circumstances of his birth... just like Harry....?
Moriden:
--- Quote ---The Gatekeeper must be a special case of some kind or surely he would be a raving, power-mad lunatic by now. Either he resists or is perhaps immune to their corrupting influence and has special power over them by dint of knowledge or the circumstances of his birth... just like Harry....?
--- End quote ---
Could be or maybe he just has the stunt and enough refresh to pay for it. or ic, he has broken the law, but is immune to the social consequence and has a strong enough will not to go mad from the knowledge he has learned. just like harry has the lawbreaker;first stunt but isn't a raving psychopath[ most of the time]
Rel Fexive:
One imagines the Gatekeeper does the most work regarding enforcing the Seventh Law. He knows the most about the Gates and Outsiders (otherwise how would he do his job?) outside of those wrong'uns dedicated to opening them and so, I would think, spends much of his time watching them, keeping an eye out (ho ho) for Seventh Law breakers, and tracking/fighting/holding back any Outsiders and Outsider servants that he finds. If he got a Lawbreaker stunt every time he had to do any of that he'd be in big trouble, and BE big trouble. So I think he must have some way around that, even if it's just a "Incorruptible By Outsiders" aspect. Maybe the position comes with something like (click to show/hide)the actual Blackstaff we see in Changes?
IMO, IMC, YMMV, etc etc.
Moriden:
Well lets look at what changes haveing -2 lawbreaker:seventh would do to him and see if its reasonable that he might have it. hed gain a +2 to research or affect outsiders. that seems reasonable to me. hes been gatekeeper for a while now so reasonably 2-3 of his aspects should in some way reflect this lawbreaking. So here is some thing i think might be the gatekeepers aspects.
High calling: The Gatekeeper
Trouble: Bound by duty
Queen Mab's friend
Tainted by otherworldly knowledge [explains his eyes "one is dark, and one is silvery and reflective"]
Just in time reflects that hes a chronomancer and his description says "If it’s one thing that the Gatekeeper has down cold, it’s timing."
Portal master "exceptional at opening and closing portals into the Nevernever.
leaves room for one more that we dont know about him. his high calling, trouble, and two of his aspects could have been affected by lawbreaker: seventh, and one of his aspects could have been affected by lawbreaker chronomancy. so at it dose seem reasonable that he has in fact broken the seventh law[ metaphysically] and simply has been dealing with the consequences.
Edit, id like to make a note that when i put down thouse aspect i drew entirely from his description in "our world" and was not keeping in mind that i had previously said 2-3 of his aspects should have been affected.
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