The Dresden Files > DFRPG
The First Law Question.
Deadmanwalking:
But did he do it with magic? I got the impression he used a sword or other physical means for his killing. He notably never tried to kill anyone mystically in Summer Knight.
I'd certainly apply the Laws to Sponsored Magic users. Their will still guides the spell, and they still need to believe in what they're doing absolutely for it to work, so their minds are still as twisted by it as anyone else.
Also, on a system basis, it seems really unfair to ding a Wizard with Sponsored Magic for the laws he breaks with it (which clearly happens, look at Hellfire and Kemmlerian Necromancy), and then let someone off just because they only paid 4 Refresh instead of 8.
KnightFerrous:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 22, 2010, 05:14:37 PM ---Also, on a system basis, it seems really unfair to ding a Wizard with Sponsored Magic for the laws he breaks with it (which clearly happens, look at Hellfire and Kemmlerian Necromancy), and then let someone off just because they only paid 4 Refresh instead of 8.
--- End quote ---
Not sure if he killed with it or not, but in this example i wouldn't ding the wizard if they were using pure sponsored magic to do it (i.e. in both those cases they are using the sponsored as a booster to their mortal magic. if harry every called up pure hellfire and lobbed it at someone i wouldn't give him the ding) Mainly because the sponsor is doing the heavy lifting, and it engenders a greater reliance on the Sponsored Magic over the mortal kind... which is pretty much the goal of every Sponsored Magic ever.
Deadmanwalking:
There's no mechanical distinction between "supercharging" spells and using raw sponsored magic. They're identical. So there's no reason for every Wizard who's ever had Sponsored Magic not to just use it every time he breaks a Law and avoid taking the taint. Which, thematically, makes the opposite of sense. Neither heaven or hell should be able to keep you from tainting yourself with murder.
In my opinion, any human who uses magic, whatever the magic's source, can gain the Lawbreaker stunt for violating the Laws. They are integral to how magic interacts with the human psyche. Completely non-human entities (like Faeries for example) don't get such stunts, but they were never human in the first place.
PirateJack:
Hi, I'm the guy who designed the magical bomb maker from the original question and I thought I'd explain his thought processes a bit more to perhaps iron out the complexities.
His back story basically amounts to his family being killed by the Red Court a year or so into the war and him deciding to use his talents (Pyromantic Ritual [-2]) to get his revenge, with preventing such tragedies from happening again being more of a justification than a deeply held belief. He did that through making explosives. My original plan for him was to have him plant his bombs in structurally important places in Red Court outposts and the likes so he could later bring down the building upon them all with a piece of the bomb to use as a remote detonator. Later thought brought me the idea that perhaps sneaking into a building full of creatures that could hear your heartbeat and smell your sweat might not have been the best idea. So I decided to add in Veils with the Channelling [-2] power and Refinement [-2] for 8 extra enchanted item slots.
This would leave me with 1 refresh point as per the Up To Your Waist power level, which is fine. However, since I've been working with the Fellowship of St. Giles for a good while now, providing them with bombs and doing the occasional mission myself and perhaps the Law has been broken despite my best efforts to avoid it, or I simply don't know about it, either works. My driving goal behind all this is killing Red Court monsters; it's even in one of my aspects that all other concerns fall to the wayside when I see the chance to take out some Red Court. So perhaps I'm a bit callous with the lives of those inside (though I do make attempts to prevent innocent people dying, those addicted to RC saliva are ones I try to put out of their misery with mundane weapons (I have heard of the Laws and understand the consequences for breaking them) with the justification that they're tainted and that if I had become addicted to the stuff I'd want to die too), but the real worry at this point is the bombs given out to other Fellowship members.
So would I get the stunt?
luminos:
Yes, I'd say that you still get the law breaker stunt. You know that there is a good chance of human collateral, even though that is not your purpose in making them, so it still counts as using magic to kill another person.
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