The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Some Guidelines for Thaumaturgical Shapeshifting?
iago:
--- Quote from: iago on April 18, 2010, 04:00:55 PM ---Okay, then, play a guy without the Thaumaturgy powers, just the shapeshifting ones -- and show me how well he can cast every other thaumaturgy spell too.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, that was flip -- I was on my way to something else while I was typing that. What I meant to be saying was...
Thaumaturgy comes with a LOT of flexibility. That ultimately is a lot of what its cost is about. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have to eat some extra cost in order to get the specific think you want out of it consistently and reliably (as represented by spent refresh), nor that you shouldn't have to summon up a lot of juice (as represented by the fate points or tags) to do it as a one-off if going for a temporary power angle on things.
And from a game balance perspective, it also keeps the wizard from being the concept that steps on everyone else's toes CONSTANTLY.
Korwin:
--- Quote from: iago on April 18, 2010, 02:12:06 PM ---EDIT: The simple fact of the matter is that for a regularly shapeshifting spellcaster (click to show/hide)like Listens to Wind, I'd *buy shapeshifting powers*. The rationale for why those powers are there is that they come from spellcraft, but the cost of being able to do that should be reflected in refresh spent, IMO. If you want to look at it from one perspective, it's like refinement points spent on shapeshifting. :)
--- End quote ---
That may be the goal, but cant be the start for an PC. Too expensive ;)
That said, can I have an example? Like an Self-Transformation into an Hellhound. (with the math please)
@Deadmanwalking
If you can do it, you can do it in combat too. With Potions. At least I think so :D
Moriden:
--- Quote ---Thaumaturgy comes with a LOT of flexibility. That ultimately is a lot of what its cost is about. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have to eat some extra cost in order to get the specific think you want out of it consistently and reliably (as represented by spent refresh), nor that you shouldn't have to summon up a lot of juice (as represented by the fate points or tags) to do it as a one-off if going for a temporary power angle on things.
--- End quote ---
quote alright I'm sure your starting to get fed up with me.
i was more getting at, that doing it this way kinda makes having Rituals: Biomancy -2 rather pointless. To shape-shift yourself you would have to either spend a bunch of fate points every time or take the shape-shifting powers. It is true that you'd have the added benefits with Biomancy of potentially being able to heal yourself and get yourself killed by shape-shifting others.
Its probably just my innate dislike of having to spend a temporary resource to fuel powers but it seems to me like if you can temporarily shape shift yourself then it should be controlled by making it harder to do, not by having to spend fate points to do it. Isn't the justification for having to spend fate points on temporary boosts on page 92 that the beings who can boost you in such a way are not likely to do it very often? That doesn't really seem to track one to one in the Biomancers case since the limiting factors for him would be his innate power and talent.
iago:
Rituals: Biomancy would be full of things like supercharging your muscles (an effect that gives you, say, Weapon:2 with your bare hands for a couple scenes) and so on. For people to say "biomancy is only effective if it gives me full shapeshifting for a cheaper cost than the people who are actual shapeshifters and have paid to be that" is both missing the point and angling for a way to cheat (the latter, hopefully, unintentional).
JustinS:
I think that is the problem, figuring out how to strike the balance. Thaumatergic shapeshifting feels like it should be one of the cool but hard things to do. I know I am trying to figure out how to make it work and keep it hard enough to be worth it.
It seems like it should be harder then I take you out without your resisting, and easier then a death spell/tranform fully resisiting other person, and from a game persepctice, a more impresssive/powerful from should be a bit harder (though some of that can be handled by making the rolls and tasks to get the Lore Bonuses to be harder. Dog stuff is not as hard to find as wolf for example, pigeon is easy, bald eagle is less so).
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