The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Some Guidelines for Thaumaturgical Shapeshifting?
iago:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 18, 2010, 02:00:56 PM ---I do, however, think we need brief guidelines for Thaumaturgical shapeshifting. It's probably not gonna be available in the midst of combat without buying some other power, but it's clearly an available ability in the setting, and some basic guidelines on difficulty seem somewhat necessary.
--- End quote ---
I agree. The discussion is underway with the developers' list right now. We're looking at potentially writing a more expanded set of guidelines for posting here on the forums, but I'm also drafting up something that can fit in the available margin space on YS283, the page right after the transformation section, since it's the closest and biggest space available. This is my current draft which just barely fits:
--- Quote ---HARRY: Billy, I’m thinking about the transforming stuff on the previous page. What does it take to transform yourself into a form with new powers? Or someone else for that matter?
BILLY: The simplest answer is that transforming a target is like killing a target, with the taken out result being that they come back in a new form with different powers (that they have to pay refresh points for). Transforming yourself is either about producing a temporary, short-term, specific spell-effect with an obvious shift cost, or it’s about acquiring new powers with spent refresh (or temporarily—see page 92).
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EDIT: The simple fact of the matter is that for a regularly shapeshifting spellcaster (click to show/hide)like Listens to Wind, I'd *buy shapeshifting powers*. The rationale for why those powers are there is that they come from spellcraft, but the cost of being able to do that should be reflected in refresh spent, IMO. If you want to look at it from one perspective, it's like refinement points spent on shapeshifting. :)
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: iago on April 18, 2010, 02:12:06 PM ---HARRY: Billy, I’m thinking about the transforming stuff on the previous page. What does it take to transform yourself into a form with new powers? Or someone else for that matter?
BILLY: The simplest answer is that transforming a target is like killing a target, with the taken out result being that they come back in a new form with different powers (that they have to pay refresh points for). Transforming yourself is either about producing a temporary, short-term, specific spell-effect with an obvious shift cost, or it’s about acquiring new powers with spent refresh (or temporarily—see page 92).
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That sounds reasonable. It also (potentially) makes doing it to yourself alot cheaper, since you can refuse to take Consequences... making it a mere 5 shift effect. Still nothing that can be done in combat...but not unreasonable. Though the Fate Point cost of some forms might get hefty. Or am I wrong about how that would work?
Also, could a spellcaster accept an inability to use magic for the duration of the spell instead of burning Fate Points ala p. 92 as the price of an equal or lesser number of powers? Or at least Evocation? Having a sorcerer turn into a hawk to spy on his foes, while not easy, doesn't seem like it should require 4 Fate Points (Beast Change, Wings, Diminutive Size, Claws), 1 Fate Point and not being able to use Evocation seems like it's more reasonable.
--- Quote from: iago on April 18, 2010, 02:12:06 PM ---EDIT: The simple fact of the matter is that for a regularly shapeshifting spellcaster (click to show/hide)like Listens to Wind, I'd *buy shapeshifting powers*. The rationale for why those powers are there is that they come from spellcraft, but the cost of being able to do that should be reflected in refresh spent, IMO. If you want to look at it from one perspective, it's like refinement points spent on shapeshifting. :)
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For combat shapeshifting? I couldn't agree more.
iago:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 18, 2010, 02:45:29 PM ---That sounds reasonable. It also (potentially) makes doing it to yourself alot cheaper, since you can refuse to take Consequences... making it a mere 5 shift effect. Still nothing that can be done in combat...but not unreasonable. Though the Fate Point cost of some forms might get hefty. Or am I wrong about how that would work?
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If I understand what you're saying, I don't think you're wrong. :) But it also means you don't need THAT many fate points to do a simple skill shuffle transformation.
--- Quote ---Also, could a spellcaster accept an inability to use magic for the duration of the spell instead of burning Fate Points ala p. 92 as the price of an equal or lesser number of powers? Or at least Evocation? Having a sorcerer turn into a hawk to spy on his foes, while not easy, doesn't seem like it should require 4 Fate Points (Beast Change, Wings, Diminutive Size, Claws), 1 Fate Point and not being able to use Evocation seems like it's more reasonable.
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Yeah, this is one of those cases where I could see playing it looser for things like the "I'm a hawk and can only do hawk things" surveillance spell. There, the transformation is almost just a special effect for a remote divination, even. Which I think is at the root of why the early-draft guidelines are loose or absent. Intent precedes system, yes, but here also intent indicates effect, and effect indicates how deeply you need to engage the system to get the result you're looking for.
I would ALSO suggest that you can eat up "tags" on temporary aspects that were created as part of the preparation of the spell in lieu of the fate points.
Deadmanwalking:
--- Quote from: iago on April 18, 2010, 02:49:19 PM ---I would ALSO suggest that you can eat up "tags" on temporary aspects that were created as part of the preparation of the spell in lieu of the fate points.
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Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. Makes turning into a Kodiak bear either a long OR very expensive process. As it should be for most Wizards.
iago:
--- Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 18, 2010, 02:59:49 PM ---Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. Makes turning into a Kodiak bear either a long OR very expensive process. As it should be for most Wizards.
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Finding the hawk's nest and getting one of its feathers -- that's a scene, and a resulting single aspect that goes into the spell.
Yeah. Prep's a bitch. But it's also a story.
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