Author Topic: So Fitz is...  (Read 11397 times)

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2022, 08:48:58 PM »
On that basis Harry needs to take on a gaggle of student Wizards, Molly helped him in veils and illusions, other students would help in other ways.

We have a WOJ that Harry is going to be much more active in the community as a leader following Battle Ground, we have seen some signs of this in The Law but could it mean him taking on half a dozen North American apprentices? I can’t see the Paranet allowing potential wizards to go to the White Council, and Gary as an oracle could likely spot a new wizard first, and with his mothers crystal Harry can get there first. Imagine Harry with half a dozen hormonal teenage  proto- Warlocks to train, as well as strong minor talents.

It would give the Merlin the Heebie Jeebies

Offline Mira

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2022, 12:03:58 PM »
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On that basis Harry needs to take on a gaggle of student Wizards, Molly helped him in veils and illusions, other students would help in other ways.

Maybe, maybe not.  The lesson Harry learned teaching Molly is his own talent and power isn't set in
stone, he can always improve.  Oh he figured out long ago that he could improve his "gadgets," his shield bracelet, his power rings etc, but he never figured out he could improve himself.  Why? I think because Justin wanted him to learn what he wanted him to learn, thus he could keep control of him.  So I think he drilled into Harry's head from a young age that if he wasn't good in a certain area, like veils, he wasn't going to get any better at it so don't waste time.  He wanted Harry to know kaboom fire magic, but he never taught him how to control it.  So for many years Harry assumed he was only good at blowing up buildings but not the subtleties of fire magic.

Offline g33k

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2022, 02:49:41 PM »
Maybe, maybe not.  The lesson Harry learned teaching Molly is his own talent and power isn't set in stone, he can always improve.  Oh he figured out long ago that he could improve his "gadgets," his shield bracelet, his power rings etc, but he never figured out he could improve himself.  Why? I think because Justin wanted him to learn what he wanted him to learn, thus he could keep control of him.  So I think he drilled into Harry's head from a young age that if he wasn't good in a certain area, like veils, he wasn't going to get any better at it so don't waste time.  He wanted Harry to know kaboom fire magic, but he never taught him how to control it.  So for many years Harry assumed he was only good at blowing up buildings but not the subtleties of fire magic.
I think it's something else:  Harry is mostly reactive.  Mostly he reacts to threats & opportunities & other needs-of-the-moment.

In large part this is simply the needs of his life.  He's a working PI, so most of his magical workings are in pursuit of solving his cases, and the needs of self-defense as he often works in high-threat situations; in the end, there's only so many hours in the day... and that stuff filled up (almost) all his hours.

Invisibility-style veils were hard for him.  Fire-magic (as a counter-threat) was easy; self-protection potions (speed-boost, health, "don't-notice-me-I'm-bland", etc) were easy.  So he never put in the long hours he'd have needed to explore/improve veils, because he had solutions that were "good enough."

When Molly became his apprentice, however, he needed to react to her... and suddenly, "veils" (and other magics he hadn't pursued) moved way up his priority list.
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 03:02:17 PM by g33k »

Offline vincentric

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2022, 04:07:46 PM »
The thing is though, veils would have been a huge asset to his work as a PI. Being able to sneak into places or follow people undetected can only be pluses. Molly's abilities would make her a main protagonist in many other series. As a team they'd be very effective with Harry being the muscle and Molly the brains.

Offline Mira

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2022, 05:19:25 PM »
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Invisibility-style veils were hard for him.  Fire-magic (as a counter-threat) was easy; self-protection potions (speed-boost, health, "don't-notice-me-I'm-bland", etc) were easy.  So he never put in the long hours he'd have needed to explore/improve veils, because he had solutions that were "good enough."

Again, he is admittedly lazy, that is why up until Molly he never bothered... As long as the stuff that was easy for him worked, he never worked any harder than he needed to.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2022, 08:02:32 PM »
Maybe, maybe not.  The lesson Harry learned teaching Molly is his own talent and power isn't set in
stone, he can always improve.  Oh he figured out long ago that he could improve his "gadgets," his shield bracelet, his power rings etc, but he never figured out he could improve himself.  Why? I think because Justin wanted him to learn what he wanted him to learn, thus he could keep control of him.  So I think he drilled into Harry's head from a young age that if he wasn't good in a certain area, like veils, he wasn't going to get any better at it so don't waste time.  He wanted Harry to know kaboom fire magic, but he never taught him how to control it.  So for many years Harry assumed he was only good at blowing up buildings but not the subtleties of fire magic.

So you are saying that Harry is himself the ultimate magical tool?

I can get behind that.

One reason older wizards may appear more rounded and powerful may be that they have had multiple apprentices over the years. This improves their belief in the extent and range of their power. Indeed this may be a selfish by-product of the Master/Apprentice system in favour of the Master.

In addition Harry was trained to be a weapon by Justin,  his initial training obviously shaped his belief in his power, but training Molly helped change that belief. Again a selfish by product of the Master/Apprentice system.

Offline g33k

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2022, 01:46:31 AM »
The thing is though, veils would have been a huge asset to his work as a PI. Being able to sneak into places or follow people undetected ...
Kind of my point:  He gets by with what he already knows, because he's being too busy to learn veils/etc.  For example, he used a potion to get into the jail in Fool Moon.  Only took him a short while to whip it up.

"Proved" to him that he didn't need to put in the time & effort to get good at veils...

Yes, obviously a veil would be more versatile, and can be whipped out whenever you need one instead of needing to brew a potion first.  And when he got good (well, less sucky) at veils, he did begin using them regularly!

Offline Mira

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2022, 04:22:06 AM »
Kind of my point:  He gets by with what he already knows, because he's being too busy to learn veils/etc.  For example, he used a potion to get into the jail in Fool Moon.  Only took him a short while to whip it up.

"Proved" to him that he didn't need to put in the time & effort to get good at veils...

Yes, obviously a veil would be more versatile, and can be whipped out whenever you need one instead of needing to brew a potion first.  And when he got good (well, less sucky) at veils, he did begin using them regularly!

You will also remember that it was Bob that dictated the recipe for the potion for Harry in the first place.  He also out of boredom made a love potion that Susan accidentally drank first instead of the escape potion.  So it wasn't even like Harry was making up his own brew, yeah, it took time and one has to be precise in cooking, but he wasn't creative.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2022, 05:01:45 PM »
Kind of my point:  He gets by with what he already knows, because he's being too busy to learn veils/etc.  For example, he used a potion to get into the jail in Fool Moon.  Only took him a short while to whip it up.

"Proved" to him that he didn't need to put in the time & effort to get good at veils...

Yes, obviously a veil would be more versatile, and can be whipped out whenever you need one instead of needing to brew a potion first.  And when he got good (well, less sucky) at veils, he did begin using them regularly!

Actually no, Harry’s potion worked on all the senses, a veil only works on sight. Against the nose and ears of a loup Garou a veil is useless. A veil also can be penetrated by the third eye and by a paste made mostly of Tiger Balm.

Offline Mira

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2022, 06:30:24 PM »
Actually no, Harry’s potion worked on all the senses, a veil only works on sight. Against the nose and ears of a loup Garou a veil is useless. A veil also can be penetrated by the third eye and by a paste made mostly of Tiger Balm.

Even so, g33K's point is valid.. Back in Storm Front and Fool Moon, Harry wasn't doing potions because they were more effective than veils..  In fact he was acting more like Harry Potter in Potions Class with instructor Bob calling the shots.  All Harry had to say about veils at that point was that he sucked at them, nothing about potions being more effective.  Though in Peace Talks he did come up with a very effective potion.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #115 on: December 14, 2022, 09:59:50 PM »
The Peace Talks Potion was the same as Fool Moon.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #116 on: December 15, 2022, 01:07:31 AM »
However that isn't the point, have you ever thought why Harry summoned Chauncy in his lab, where he has a circle that is stronger than a mere chalk one? Yes,convenience is important as you say.  But more importantly, Harry's lab is secret, he could get into a lot of trouble with the White Council for summoning a demon.  If Chauncy did get he was as capable of tearing up Harry as the Frog Demon was.  Chauncy is a thing from Hell, Mab, as powerful as she is, isn't.
Chauncey is a lot more aggressive. He may be from Hell, but he is not vaguely on Mab's power level. Harry's circle for Mab is observing the proprieties. Heck, he circled URIEL. He circled Chauncey to make sure to keep himself SAFE.   

Offline Ed0517

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2022, 01:10:29 AM »
I think there may just be an element of it being a self-image formed in his early magical years, studying under Justin.

You know:  during the time when he and Elaine were mostly interested in minimizing the time spent on homework so they could spend time on each other...

So Harry had this formative period where he was a bad student & lazy about studying; and to an extent, still thinks of himself in the ways he learned then (because "formative").

 Well, also he got trained on shields with Justin throwing baseballs at him.... make a mistake and it HURTS.   Not a great incentive to start to learn new things.

Offline Mira

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #118 on: December 15, 2022, 11:29:25 AM »
Chauncey is a lot more aggressive. He may be from Hell, but he is not vaguely on Mab's power level. Harry's circle for Mab is observing the proprieties. Heck, he circled URIEL. He circled Chauncey to make sure to keep himself SAFE.   

 Which shows Harry wasn't in his right mind because it amused Uriel, but as Uriel said, it wouldn't have stopped him.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: So Fitz is...
« Reply #119 on: December 15, 2022, 04:56:29 PM »
Maybe Uriel would have been offended if Harry hadn’t tried to circle him? Harry at least tried to take what he thought was a sensible precaution.

However we know that there is only one Uriel in the entire multiverse, he exists simultaneously in every universe, so you would have to draw a circle around the Multiverse to contain him. That’s what Uriel probably found so amusing, not that Uriel could bust through any circle Harry might devise, but it could never capture him in the first place. On the other hand it is one Mab per universe and Harry was able to circle Titania. When he tried it with the Mothers that didn’t work, so I presume the Mothers aside from being the full intellectus exist multiversally like Uriel and are incapable of being circled