Author Topic: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?  (Read 5144 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2022, 05:31:55 PM »
First, a baby doesn't seem to be the purpose. When Mab turns down Harry's suggestion the she marry Lara, Mab doesn't cite the inability to produce a child as a reason, rather she says choices she made as a mortal made the match incompatible. She then says this was what the Knight was designed for.

My point is, what is the point?  There already is an alliance between the White Court and the Winter Court, no need for a marriage.. Marriage isn't needed to produce a baby, and was Lord Raith married to all the mothers of his children?  Something else is going on, I think Mab is looking for someone who might be able to control Harry better than she can.  Or you can nix all of that, in my opinion it is just another sideshow we can do without..

Offline Arjan

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2022, 06:36:13 PM »
First, a baby doesn't seem to be the purpose. When Mab turns down Harry's suggestion the she marry Lara, Mab doesn't cite the inability to produce a child as a reason, rather she says choices she made as a mortal made the match incompatible. She then says this was what the Knight was designed for.
Her choice to become female 😀

You know how Mab is with words.
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2022, 07:10:12 PM »
Her choice to become female 😀

You know how Mab is with words.
;)

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2022, 08:26:50 PM »
My point is, what is the point?  There already is an alliance between the White Court and the Winter Court, no need for a marriage.. Marriage isn't needed to produce a baby, and was Lord Raith married to all the mothers of his children?  Something else is going on, I think Mab is looking for someone who might be able to control Harry better than she can.  Or you can nix all of that, in my opinion it is just another sideshow we can do without..

I am getting the impression, this isn't about Harry or controlling Harry or putting Molly in her place or whatever.
I am starting to think, that this is about LARA!
Putting Harry in a place where HE can control Lara and not Mab or Lara controlling him.
See, there was the fact that Justine/known host for Nemesis was for a very long time very close to Lara and her Court. Close enough to manipulate and possibly take control.
There was Lord Raith presumably in a pact with at least one Outsider (summoned HHWB in Blood Rites).
Thomas has been influenced by Justinemesis to attack the swartalf king.
Can Mab trust Lara under these circumstances?

Who would be better suited to put in a place in which Lara is bound to him by a marriage contract and vows than the infamous Winter Knight/wizard/Starborn known defeater of mind controllers Harry Dresden?
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Offline Avernite

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2022, 09:30:05 PM »
I am getting the impression, this isn't about Harry or controlling Harry or putting Molly in her place or whatever.
I am starting to think, that this is about LARA!
Putting Harry in a place where HE can control Lara and not Mab or Lara controlling him.
See, there was the fact that Justine/known host for Nemesis was for a very long time very close to Lara and her Court. Close enough to manipulate and possibly take control.
There was Lord Raith presumably in a pact with at least one Outsider (summoned HHWB in Blood Rites).
Thomas has been influenced by Justinemesis to attack the swartalf king.
Can Mab trust Lara under these circumstances?

Who would be better suited to put in a place in which Lara is bound to him by a marriage contract and vows than the infamous Winter Knight/wizard/Starborn known defeater of mind controllers Harry Dresden?

Or it is about punishment. Lara did send Mab a calculated insult by imprisoning tiny faeries during White Night. Harry resolved the issue, but he did not punish Lara. And what better way to punish Lara than making her obligated to protect Harry and live through the general mayhem that is 'anywhere close to Harry Dresden'.

Offline g33k

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2022, 11:16:53 PM »
My point is, what is the point?  There already is an alliance between the White Court and the Winter Court, no need for a marriage...
Marriage -- old-school, arranged marriage between nobles -- is almost always political.  It's usually about taking an "alliance" and making it even closer, but sometimes about ending a war, or defusing a tense situation; also sometimes about getting rid of a problem-at-home by exporting them to the other court; or installing a loyal-to-you agent high within the other court; etc.

Mab works on just a single level of planning/intention about never, so I'm certain there's more to it than that.  But I'm certain that's part of it!

... I think Mab is looking for someone who might be able to control Harry better than she can...
I'm pretty sure Mab isn't interested in anybody who can "control (her Winter Knight) better than she can" (I think the idea would horrify her).

And I suspect Mab knows that Lara isn't the whamp for the job (Thomas is a *far* better lever upon Harry).

WE know Lara can't take Harry from how Harry basically let Lara "take her best shot" in the Raith Deeps, and not only did Harry not succumb... he maintained the focus and willpower to form magic -- on the fly -- that was both incredibly-powerful and pretty nuanced (with the hard outer sphere and layers of padding inside).

I bet Mab knows this, too.

... in my opinion it is just another sideshow we can do without.
I don't expect this wedding is coming to fruition.  It is, as you say, a "sideshow," but it's a Harry-distracting, Harry-tormenting sideshow, and those are very much in the Dresden Files tradition.

(It's also worth noting, here:  Jim himself is coming off his second divorce; this may influence marriage-related plotlines.  (Similarly, I'm pretty sure we know WAY more about LKH's love-life & taste in men, courtesy of Anita & Merry, than many of us want to know (she certainly told us she was bi & poly before she "revealed" her bi/poly 3rd)))

...
I am starting to think, that this is about LARA!
Putting Harry in a place where HE can control Lara and not Mab or Lara controlling him.

This seems like a valid notion; or perhaps -- if not to overtly "control" Lara -- it's just about sending her (Starborn, Outsider-hating) WK into the Whamp Court to "investigate" her suspicions.  Or just enact a "patented Harry-Dresden anarchygasm" and see what comes to light.  But yes; I think it's about (or at least more about) Lara & the Whamps, rather than about Harry.

I am getting the impression, this isn't about Harry or controlling Harry or putting Molly in her place or whatever.

Say rather (see above, "Mab works on just a single level of planning/intention about never") this isn't just about those things.

And I think she plans on this to just... "ablate" Molly's love, a bit.
She has the coldness of the Winter mantle acting on her...
She saw Harry getting intimate with Murphy...
Now Harry's engaged to Lara...
All of these things can have an impact on Molly's love.  Mab I think sees any affection as a weakness, a vulnerability to exploit; and love the greatest of all.  She hopes to wean the Winter Lady of such weakness.  First, Harry; then the Carpenters.

I do not think she'll succeed, because she doesn't really understand these things anymore; in particular, she no longer remembers the strength that liking and loving can bring.

But I think her plans lay in that direction.

Harry, I think... she's throwing problems & challenges at him.  A conflict is coming, and she is tempering him as a weapon.  She wants him stronger, more flexible, more keen-edged.  Also, I think she's laying other & deeper plans against him, stiffer challenges, etc... this one she hopes will keep him more engaged, so he doesn't see the next one coming.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2022, 01:01:02 AM »
Lara's looking for cover, she's frightened.  Mab's taking advantage of that to put her Knight in the White Court. Lara's been attacked twice counting White Knight and Nemesis got in close. So in that sense it's political.  But the crown doesn't pass though linage for either the Winter Court or the White Court so a baby would be worthless.

Besides you just know there will be coitus interruptus as Harry gets snatched to Mirror Mirror.

Offline forumghost

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2022, 01:32:49 AM »
I'd expect Marriagus Interruptus myself, so that Harry has to deal with the fallout of both seemingly embarrassing Mab by bailing at the last second, and the fallout of seemingly leaving Lara freaking Raith at the Altar.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2022, 03:33:54 PM »
Lara's looking for cover, she's frightened.  Mab's taking advantage of that to put her Knight in the White Court. Lara's been attacked twice counting White Knight and Nemesis got in close. So in that sense it's political.  But the crown doesn't pass though linage for either the Winter Court or the White Court so a baby would be worthless.

Besides you just know there will be coitus interruptus as Harry gets snatched to Mirror Mirror.
For Lara a baby would be a great potential asset. A child of Harry and her would likely be a very powerful vampire and if she can raise the baby according to her wishes she can use the child like she was used by her father. There are some risks involved but the potential power upgrade for her white court is big. Also she and her hunger might just want to reproduce. It is a common drive.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2022, 03:45:47 PM »
For Lara a baby would be a great potential asset. A child of Harry and her would likely be a very powerful vampire and if she can raise the baby according to her wishes she can use the child like she was used by her father. There are some risks involved but the potential power upgrade for her white court is big. Also she and her hunger might just want to reproduce. It is a common drive.

All she needs is a sperm donor for that..  Any Tom, Dick, or Harry will do for that.. ::)

Offline g33k

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2022, 04:58:48 PM »
... A child of Harry and her would likely be a very powerful vampire ...
I don't think so.  The Dresdenverse's "Salic Law" (that magic tends to follow the maternal bloodline) suggests Harry is no more likely to sire a "magically powerful" child than anyone else is.

OTOH, wizards are hardly known for their advanced scientific studies, and their traditional lore (including the Salic Law) may have some validity, but still only be a part of the story.  After all, WoJ says (iirc) that McCoy's wife was a plain-vanilla mortal, yet her daughter was Margaret Gwendolyn (LeFay) McCoy, a very strong wizard in her own right.

... Also she and her hunger might just want to reproduce. It is a common drive.
I don't think we know anything about the drives of a Whamp hunger, other than the Hunger itself.

But since they only seem to exist inside a human host, they don't need their own reproductive drive:  they can just "piggyback" on humans' (rather profligate) drive.  Given the impact Justine's news had on Thomas, I think we can take it that the desire for children is as strong in Whamps as humans (maybe stronger, since it seems that being a Whampire cuts fertility sharply, and thus can leave the drive with longing & frustration.)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #71 on: June 08, 2022, 12:27:31 AM »
All she needs is a sperm donor for that..  Any Tom, Dick, or Harry will do for that.. ::)
Seems logical that you improve your chances with a magical parent. Also you might get a wizard vampire combination.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #72 on: June 08, 2022, 10:58:58 AM »
Seems logical that you improve your chances with a magical parent. Also you might get a wizard vampire combination.

But was Lara's mother a wizard? Aside from Thomas, who of Lord Raith's children's mothers were wizards?  What percent of the White Court for that matter? And wouldn't the same risks apply to Lara as any other vamp mom?  Which if Thomas is to be believed from what he told Harry back in Peace Talks is considerable. Also Lara could very well be sterile if Thomas is to be believed.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2022, 01:20:53 PM »
But was Lara's mother a wizard? Aside from Thomas, who of Lord Raith's children's mothers were wizards?  What percent of the White Court for that matter? And wouldn't the same risks apply to Lara as any other vamp mom?  Which if Thomas is to be believed from what he told Harry back in Peace Talks is considerable. Also Lara could very well be sterile if Thomas is to be believed.
Thomas father was a vampire and his mother a wizard. Thomas is both.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Lara and Harry sitting in a tree.......?
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2022, 01:46:57 PM »
Thomas father was a vampire and his mother a wizard. Thomas is both.

Thomas is no wizard.  What I am talking about is the fetus Hunger eating it's host's body.