Author Topic: What will Eb do?  (Read 12069 times)

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2021, 05:22:22 AM »
Quote
Sure he is, but considering what he did to Casaverde I hardly think he would have trouble with nuking them. Hell, I hardly think he would have trouble with them if he walked in the front door. Also, even more strange is that he didn't realise Lord Raith's weakness to physical objects. Sure, magic slides off him. Harry had no problem hurling an object with magic at him. Eb could have nuked Raith any time he liked. I think he either lied about the attempts, which is why he's so touchy. He doesn't want Harry to find out whatever grubby deal he has going with them. Or Eb was told specifically not to and there are other protections in place.

How do you define "nuke"? Maybe he could, but there are other things to consider, like the Accords.
So he wouldn't want to draw attention doing it.  I like the idea of hiring Mr Grey, or heck, Kincaid for that matter, a bullet from a sniper rifle would be effective.  Or one would think, just how old is Lord Raith anyway?  One doesn't get to live that long, even a vamp, without learning a thing or two about survival.

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2021, 06:08:24 AM »
Lara is of a similar age as Luccio, isn't she?  Papa Raith is likely as old or older than Eb.

A sniper rifle isn't going to kill a whampire like it would a wizard, so that's out.  For a satellite drop, Eb would need to know that Papa Raith was actually underneath the blast zone.  I'd guess that tracking spells wash off him just as much as regular evocation magic.  It's probably not a good idea to go after the White King unless you can be sure you get him in one attack.  Otherwise, you're on the top of his priority list.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2021, 06:24:02 AM »
How do you define "nuke"? Maybe he could, but there are other things to consider, like the Accords.
So he wouldn't want to draw attention doing it.  I like the idea of hiring Mr Grey, or heck, Kincaid for that matter, a bullet from a sniper rifle would be effective.  Or one would think, just how old is Lord Raith anyway?  One doesn't get to live that long, even a vamp, without learning a thing or two about survival.
A massive display of destructive power. Like hurling an asteroid at a target, or erupting the ground beneath them etc. Very much in Eb's wheelhouse. Yeah see, the White Court actually broke the Accords by killing Maggie...not to mention, would Eb be really worried about Mab at that point? He hasn't shown the most level head when he's upset. He also could do it in less obvious ways I'd imagine.
Can't use Kincaid given the history between him and McCoy. Can't really use Grey because he didn't much like Margaret. But someone of that level would be appropriate.

Well that's true about Raith, but the White Court's biggest defence is being everyone's friend, and never being tied to anything. The less overt they are, the better. Maybe Raith really was that well protected. Maybe the White Council told Eb not to and made him listen. Or maybe...Eb isn't on the level. He definitely has some weird history with Lara. Hell, he could have dated her considering her age.

Lara is of a similar age as Luccio, isn't she?  Papa Raith is likely as old or older than Eb.

A sniper rifle isn't going to kill a whampire like it would a wizard, so that's out.  For a satellite drop, Eb would need to know that Papa Raith was actually underneath the blast zone.  I'd guess that tracking spells wash off him just as much as regular evocation magic.  It's probably not a good idea to go after the White King unless you can be sure you get him in one attack.  Otherwise, you're on the top of his priority list.
Oh no, Lara is older than Luccio. Papa Raith is far, far older. He quite possibly predates the building of Rome. I believe there's a quote about him having 2000 years of paranoia built up.

Why wouldn't a sniper rifle work? Especially with the right bullet? White Court can heal...if they don't suffer catastrophic damage to their structure. I'd say a sniper rifle bullet to the head would do the trick.

As for knowing where Raith is, that's required for some magic, sure. But not all. There's such a thing as sympathetic magic and thaumaturgy. Well, Lord Raith can't avoid magic entirely because Eb got three attempts in (if you go by Ebenezar's word). Even without that it's really just a planning issue, which comes down to intel gathering. I don't doubt Eb could do that well enough.

And yet, Eb supposedly took three hits at the White King to no reprisals. Very fishy. Either the White's were scared of him, or he didn't try very hard/at all.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2021, 10:51:47 AM »
Quote
A massive display of destructive power. Like hurling an asteroid at a target, or erupting the ground beneath them etc. Very much in Eb's wheelhouse. Yeah see, the White Court actually broke the Accords by killing Maggie...not to mention, would Eb be really worried about Mab at that point? He hasn't shown the most level head when he's upset. He also could do it in less obvious ways I'd imagine.
Can't use Kincaid given the history between him and McCoy. Can't really use Grey because he didn't much like Margaret. But someone of that level would be appropriate.

One problem with that is the Raith estate is very near the City of Chicago and in a heavily populated area.   Could he do it? Yeah, but was it worth the attention, death, and destruction it bring? I'm not sure if Margaret's murder would effect the Accords, because in a sense though she was now married to Malcolm it was the result of a family squabble because Margaret had been living with Raith.. A huge disaster could have brought the same kind of unwanted attention to the supernatural world as the Battle of Chicago did, that would make the members of the Accords most unhappy.

Eb can be willfully and selectively blind to a lot of stuff, i.e. thinking Margaret lived with Raith for a number of years and didn't have sex with him?


Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2021, 05:47:35 PM »
Oh no, Lara is older than Luccio. Papa Raith is far, far older. He quite possibly predates the building of Rome. I believe there's a quote about him having 2000 years of paranoia built up.

Why wouldn't a sniper rifle work? Especially with the right bullet? White Court can heal...if they don't suffer catastrophic damage to their structure. I'd say a sniper rifle bullet to the head would do the trick.

As for knowing where Raith is, that's required for some magic, sure. But not all. There's such a thing as sympathetic magic and thaumaturgy. Well, Lord Raith can't avoid magic entirely because Eb got three attempts in (if you go by Ebenezar's word). Even without that it's really just a planning issue, which comes down to intel gathering. I don't doubt Eb could do that well enough.

And yet, Eb supposedly took three hits at the White King to no reprisals. Very fishy. Either the White's were scared of him, or he didn't try very hard/at all.
I found the WoJ, Papa Raith is around 2000 years old total.  The White Court's official language is Etruscan, so their court likely does predate Rome, but not Papa Raith himself.

I'm still thinking Lara is of a similar age to Luccio tbh, like born between Langtry and Luccio.  I can't find references to it explicitly, but she mentions living in Japan for a big chunk of the 1700's in PT and Luccio was born late 1700's early 1800's since she can barely remember the War of 1812.

A sniper bullet would put a hole in a whampire's head, but I don't think it would be enough to reliably put one down by itself.  Lara shook off a grenade in the face.

Thaumaturgy requires a metaphysical link to the target.  Raith's protection is going to make that nigh impossible.  He's magical teflon.  That means magical attacks are going to be tougher to pull off.  A satellite drop could be area targeted to Chateau Raith, but what if Papa Raith was in the Deeps and it misses?  Gathering information on a foreign head of state seems harder than you make it out to be.  Especially when he somehow stymies all your best tools.  Eb evidently took three shots and all three didn't work.  Papa Raith couldn't hit back because of Maggie Sr's curse, so he took a hit to his standing in the White Court and didn't retaliate.

Eb can be willfully and selectively blind to a lot of stuff, i.e. thinking Margaret lived with Raith for a number of years and didn't have sex with him?
Was that actually known information, though?  I get the sense that Maggie Sr was hopping everywhere throughout the NN for the last portion of her life (cough cough setting up the Circle cough cough).  I don't think where she was living was really public information beyond she had been seen with lots and lots of unsavory folks.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2021, 10:47:39 PM »
Quote
Was that actually known information, though?  I get the sense that Maggie Sr was hopping everywhere throughout the NN for the last portion of her life (cough cough setting up the Circle cough cough).  I don't think where she was living was really public information beyond she had been seen with lots and lots of unsavory folks.

Very possible, but at the same time Eb had dinner with Margaret and Lord Raith from time to time.
That is how Ariana got wind or figured out that she was Eb's daughter..  So at the very least Eb knew Margaret was tight with vamps, and if she showed up to more than one dinner with Lord Raith, he should have been able to put two and two together.  This went on for a number of years, let's not forget that Thomas was at least five when Margaret dumped Lord Raith for Malcolm.

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2021, 01:13:39 AM »
Very possible, but at the same time Eb had dinner with Margaret and Lord Raith from time to time.
That is how Ariana got wind or figured out that she was Eb's daughter..  So at the very least Eb knew Margaret was tight with vamps, and if she showed up to more than one dinner with Lord Raith, he should have been able to put two and two together.  This went on for a number of years, let's not forget that Thomas was at least five when Margaret dumped Lord Raith for Malcolm.
Odin has lunch with Uriel from time to time, but we don't assume they live together.   ;D

I don't think Eb and Maggie Sr had many lines of communication open in her later years and she's appearing so many unpleasant places all the time, so assuming that she was sleeping with Papa Raith is an understandable stretch to me.  Why would a powerful wizard make such a bad decision to sleep with a sex vampire?  They would have thought that another explanation was simpler.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline TrueMonk

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2021, 06:40:46 AM »
I still think the simplest explanation is that pappa wraith on a full tank is extremely tough. Yes a large caliber bullet to the head would (perhaps) kill the other WC vampires, but I think they are also in a totally different weight class than him. If Lara is from around 1700 and he is from around year 0 then he is six times older. Maybe Eb did drop a satelite on him, but it did not kill him. Or maybe he tried to drop a satelite on him but his super hearing picked it up and he was so fast that he could run away in time? If he could rip the life force from someone with a kiss maybe Goodman Grey would not have fared so well. Maybe when he was with a full tank he did not have to settle for mortal dominated henchmen, he could have had his own dominated pet shapeshifter (or something else)

The simplest explanation as to why someone lives for 2000 years with a lot of enemies is that they are very hard to kill. I cannot imagine that Eb is the first one he pissed off.

Offline TrueMonk

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2021, 06:44:22 AM »
I still think the simplest explanation is that pappa wraith on a full tank is extremely tough. Yes a large caliber bullet to the head would (perhaps) kill the other WC vampires, but I think they are also in a totally different weight class than him. If Lara is from around 1700 and he is from around year 0 then he is six times older. Maybe Eb did drop a satelite on him, but it did not kill him. Or maybe he tried to drop a satelite on him but his super hearing picked it up and he was so fast that he could run away in time? If he could rip the life force from someone with a kiss maybe Goodman Grey would not have fared so well. Maybe when he was with a full tank he did not have to settle for mortal dominated henchmen, he could have had his own dominated pet shapeshifter (or something else)

The simplest explanation as to why someone lives for 2000 years with a lot of enemies is that they are very hard to kill. I cannot imagine that Eb is the first one he pissed off.

Offline Basil

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 154
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2021, 01:36:05 PM »
I don't think that McCoy is going to do much, I think we've seen plenty of foreshadowing that he's going to die soon.  Not in combat or anything like that, he's going to stroke out. 

I think he's going to die, give the Blackstaff to Harry and that will kick off the White Council civil war. 

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3913
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2021, 02:33:23 PM »
Yes a large caliber bullet to the head would (perhaps) kill the other WC vampires, but I think they are also in a totally different weight class than him.

Kincaid probably deals in ammunition that would do more like decapitation than hole-through-head, but Ebenezar possibly hates Kincaid even more than he does Lord Raith, so there's no way he's going there for a contract. Kincaid would probably refuse a contract there anyway on the premise Eb was probably setting him up to go on a suicide mission.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2021, 02:36:43 PM »
I don't think that McCoy is going to do much, I think we've seen plenty of foreshadowing that he's going to die soon.  Not in combat or anything like that, he's going to stroke out. 

I think he's going to die, give the Blackstaff to Harry and that will kick off the White Council civil war.

I am still in the Eb is suffering from dementia group, not serious yet, but there are signs.  Also I think what is making it worse is he is totally conflicted between his loyalty to the Council and his love for his grandson.  Think how much easier it would be for everyone if Eb would just sit Harry down and tell him the truth about everything!   

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2021, 05:40:46 PM »
Kincaid probably deals in ammunition that would do more like decapitation than hole-through-head, but Ebenezar possibly hates Kincaid even more than he does Lord Raith, so there's no way he's going there for a contract. Kincaid would probably refuse a contract there anyway on the premise Eb was probably setting him up to go on a suicide mission.
Yeah, at the very least, I think going Marcone's route with a historical bullet would be a necessity to feel comfortable taking a shot at Papa Raith.  Kincaid used mundane bullets on Harry.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2021, 06:05:13 PM »
I could see a young group like the Librarians quietly acquiring the weapons used by Bonnie and Clyde back in the 1930's, and keeping them in a safe to be used against Wamps.

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What will Eb do?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2021, 06:11:03 PM »
I could see a young group like the Librarians quietly acquiring the weapons used by Bonnie and Clyde back in the 1930's, and keeping them in a safe to be used against Wamps.

Is it important that the bullets came from historical figures or they killed historical figures?  Or maybe either/or?

I could certainly seem them scoop up John Wilkes Booth's bullet along those lines.  Assuming they know the value like Marcone does.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill