Author Topic: Murphy Family Reunion  (Read 1122 times)

Offline Con

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Murphy Family Reunion
« on: July 18, 2021, 08:08:10 AM »
Do you think Murphy met her Dad in the Between before signing up with Vadderung?

Seems like the place to make that "choice"

Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2021, 09:55:57 AM »
Do you think Murphy met her Dad in the Between before signing up with Vadderung?

Seems like the place to make that "choice"

I doubt it because in Murphy's case, she was directly picked up by one of the Valkyrie, body and all.

Offline Con

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2021, 11:37:29 AM »
There is a relevant WOJ on it.

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"Muskogee: Do einherjar have to make a choice to be recruited?

Jim: No not really. They can get roped into it. I mean if they've already got a claim somewhere else that's different. In which case Odin has to make a deal of some kind, it's like "I know you had plans for this guy and all Anubis but I really need him for the rest of the mortals" and that's the kind of thing that can happen. Very confused people occasionally wake up in Valhalla."

Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2021, 11:49:27 AM »
There is a relevant WOJ on it.

What is confusing is seemingly Harry didn't get a choice, but then again he was only mostly dead and Uriel wanted to teach him a lesson.. Though seemingly at the end of Ghost Story Uriel was giving him a choice.. However it wasn't a real choice because Harry chose to move on instead he woke up alive on Demonreach.  I can see possibly Murphy choosing to become one of Odin's soldiers of the future, but then again that goes against her faith.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2021, 01:03:28 PM »
What is confusing is seemingly Harry didn't get a choice, but then again he was only mostly dead and Uriel wanted to teach him a lesson.. Though seemingly at the end of Ghost Story Uriel was giving him a choice.. However it wasn't a real choice because Harry chose to move on instead he woke up alive on Demonreach.  I can see possibly Murphy choosing to become one of Odin's soldiers of the future, but then again that goes against her faith.
Unless Uriel and Vadderung made a deal. Then she should just have faith.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2021, 02:11:56 PM »
Unless Uriel and Vadderung made a deal. Then she should just have faith.

But that is the point,  in Ghost Story Uriel talks to Harry about it;

Quote
"When you say what comes next, what do you mean exactly?"
"The part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."
"Oh," I said.  "What comes next."
"Exactly."
"So I can stay Between," I said quietly.  "Or I can go get on that train."
"If you do," Uriel said, his eyes intent and serious, "then you accept
what you have done will be taken into account.  Your fate, ultimately, will
be determined by your actions in life."
"You're saying that if I don't work for you, I'll just have to accept what comes?"
"I am saying that you cannot escape the consequences of your choices,"he said.
I frowned at him for a minute.  Then I said, "If I get on the train, it might carry me to Hell."
"I can't talk to you about that,"he said.  "What comes next is about faith, Harry.  Not knowledge."
 
Or she didn't accept the consequences of her choices in life and Odin presented her with an alternative to hanging out in the Between like her father or accepting judgement at this point.
That would be very "Murphylike" when you think of it, she always preferred her own ideas.. Though I don't know whether or not her time in Valhalla or later as one of Odin's warriors will count for her when judgement comes or against her.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2021, 02:47:39 PM »
But that is the point,  in Ghost Story Uriel talks to Harry about it;
Or she didn't accept the consequences of her choices in life and Odin presented her with an alternative to hanging out in the Between like her father or accepting judgement at this point.
That would be very "Murphylike" when you think of it, she always preferred her own ideas.. Though I don't know whether or not her time in Valhalla or later as one of Odin's warriors will count for her when judgement comes or against her.
Jim specifically said these deals were made and Vadderung hangs out with Uriel. A deal is quite possible.

What comes next is deliberately kept vague but it seems that Hades and Valhalla are valid though maybe somewhat out of fashion versions of it.

It seems that Karen made a choice. Harry gave her that choice and she chose the warrior path. Most choices are not that clear as the doors Harry was offered and even that clarity was deceptive.

It is a fine aft route for her. She wanted to be involved and now she is.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2021, 05:28:27 PM »
Quote
Jim specifically said these deals were made and Vadderung hangs out with Uriel. A deal is quite possible.

I doubt that it is though in the case of souls and the judgement of souls.

Uriel;
Quote
"I am saying that you cannot escape the consequences of your choices,"he said.
 

There are consequences for her life's choices, one of her big choices in life was to go and work for Vadderung..  Her second big choice and maybe a bigger one, by her silence when she got a possible job offer whether you think it was to be a Valkyrie or an einherjar,it implied acceptance, she sealed her fate.  So when she died, her body and soul were gathered up and taken to Valhalla as a consequence of her choices in life, not any deal between Uriel and Odin.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2021, 06:44:26 PM »
I doubt that it is though in the case of souls and the judgement of souls.

Uriel;
There are consequences for her life's choices, one of her big choices in life was to go and work for Vadderung..  Her second big choice and maybe a bigger one, by her silence when she got a possible job offer whether you think it was to be a Valkyrie or an einherjar,it implied acceptance, she sealed her fate.  So when she died, her body and soul were gathered up and taken to Valhalla as a consequence of her choices in life, not any deal between Uriel and Odin.
As usual Uriel’s quotes are quite meaningless if you want direct practical application. Of course your choices have consequences. What consequences is a different thing though.

It is highly likely that the quoted woj has something to do with Murphy’s situation because of context and she was in many respects still a catholic christian. But yes Vadderung had some arguments too so I think there was a discussion.

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Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2021, 08:48:39 PM »
Quote
It is highly likely that the quoted woj has something to do with Murphy’s situation because of context and she was in many respects still a catholic christian. But yes Vadderung had some arguments too so I think there was a discussion.

There may have been, but in the matters of what happens to the soul, that is out of Uriel's hands.
As he said to Harry;

Quote
When you say what comes next, what do you mean exactly?"
"The part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."
In other words what happens next is up to Uriel's Boss..  Uriel also said something else to
Harry that it was about faith, not knowledge.

I think shocking as it may sound that Murphy rejected her religion when she thought Harry was dead.  Contrast her attitude about being a Knight and the Holy Swords and what the Knights stand for verses Michael, or even Sanya who claims to be an atheist.  Nic tested her faith, and he won, a Holy Sword was broken, it was the Sword of Faith.. Let's not forget that Murphy proclaimed that she was a better suited to judge Nic than the Almighty, someone of faith wouldn't think that..  What comes next is the consequences of choices made in life, Murphy chose to reject her faith in higher power and to rely on her own judgement instead.. She chose to become a pure warrior, though her death was stupid, her final act was that of a warrior.. So the consequences was to be sent to Valhalla to still be a warrior.


Offline Arjan

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2021, 09:47:11 PM »
There may have been, but in the matters of what happens to the soul, that is out of Uriel's hands.
As he said to Harry;
In other words what happens next is up to Uriel's Boss..  Uriel also said something else to
Harry that it was about faith, not knowledge.

I think shocking as it may sound that Murphy rejected her religion when she thought Harry was dead.  Contrast her attitude about being a Knight and the Holy Swords and what the Knights stand for verses Michael, or even Sanya who claims to be an atheist.  Nic tested her faith, and he won, a Holy Sword was broken, it was the Sword of Faith.. Let's not forget that Murphy proclaimed that she was a better suited to judge Nic than the Almighty, someone of faith wouldn't think that..  What comes next is the consequences of choices made in life, Murphy chose to reject her faith in higher power and to rely on her own judgement instead.. She chose to become a pure warrior, though her death was stupid, her final act was that of a warrior.. So the consequences was to be sent to Valhalla to still be a warrior.
I think you read too much in Uriel's words. He is a master in not telling things. Harry was saying things like judgement, eternal etc. Uriel just brought him back to Mab. In his case that was what comes next.

Jim probably lets it vague on purpose but strictly speaking we do barely know that Uriel's boss exists let alone what he is doing.

For now I assume his everafter is just something like Hades but with more harps and trumpets.
 
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Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2021, 03:04:52 AM »
I think you read too much in Uriel's words. He is a master in not telling things. Harry was saying things like judgement, eternal etc. Uriel just brought him back to Mab. In his case that was what comes next.

Jim probably lets it vague on purpose but strictly speaking we do barely know that Uriel's boss exists let alone what he is doing.

For now I assume his everafter is just something like Hades but with more harps and trumpets.

I could be reading too much into them, but Uriel isn't in charge of judgement and he has rules he has to play by..  I wouldn't assume anything since Uriel's everafter is hidden from us..

Offline raidem

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2021, 07:31:45 PM »
Well, my take is that Vadderung needs Murphy "for the rest of the mortals" whatever that means.  And of course, I'll argue it will end up being Murphy acquiring a Mantle in the end if not the Mab one, at least in one or some alternate realities.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2021, 11:03:42 PM »
Well, my take is that Vadderung needs Murphy "for the rest of the mortals" whatever that means.  And of course, I'll argue it will end up being Murphy acquiring a Mantle in the end if not the Mab one, at least in one or some alternate realities.

I don't know if Odin needs Murphy for that since all the soldiers in Valhalla were ordinary vanilla mortals at one time.  I don't know what mantle Murphy would be eligible for.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Murphy Family Reunion
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2021, 07:16:59 AM »
Jim specifically said these deals were made and Vadderung hangs out with Uriel. A deal is quite possible.


"I want to subcontract one of your people."
"Who?"
"Karrin Murphy. Battle of the Bean."
"I'm aware. "
"Well?"
"You picking up the tab today?"
"You had the Kobe steak and a glass of Knappogue Castle 1951!"
"She's worth it. After Ragnarok she comes back?"
"Oh, all right. Baron Marcone's check came in for consulting services today."
"Slainte."