Author Topic: "It is not yet your hour."  (Read 1020 times)

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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"It is not yet your hour."
« on: June 08, 2021, 06:41:06 PM »
To to remind anyone who doesn't quite remember what the subject line refers to, it's from Turn Coat when the Gatekeeper confronts Harry on the 'What's up dock'."  Specifically, Rashid's dialog with Harry goes like this:
...
"And I cannot permit you to openly challenge the White Council to battle."

"No?" I asked, thrusting out my jaw. "Why not?"

His deep, resonant voice sounded troubled. "It is not yet your hour."

I felt my eyebrows go up. "Not yet...?"

He shook his head. "Places in time. This is not the time, or the place....


The first thing I noticed while rereading this passage is that; according to the Gatekeeper, while we can't know the location where Harry will eventually challenge the Council, it won't be on Demonreach.  Then again, maybe Harry will challenge the Council to come to Demonreach Island, but they just won't be dumb enough to do that.  However, the location of this future showdown is not the primary reason I started this thread.

What I want to do is ask everyone, what do you think will cause Harry to take a direct stand again the White Council? I suppose it could be something as simple as the Council announcing they've declared Harry an outlaw and he preempts them by making the first move, but knowing Harry, he will probably only make an overt challenge against the Council in response to a moral issue he feels he can't back away from.  What do you think that could be?  Will the Council cross some moral boundary Harry can't accept or will it be something closer to home, like the Council learning about Bob and, or Bonea and demanding they be destroyed?  What scenarios have you thought up that would push Harry to take such an extreme action?     
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Offline Mira

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2021, 06:54:55 PM »
Quote
What I want to do is ask everyone, what do you think will cause Harry to take a direct stand again the White Council? I suppose it could be something as simple as the Council announcing they've declared Harry an outlaw and he preempts them by making the first move, but knowing Harry, he will probably only make an overt challenge against the Council in response to a moral issue he feels he can't back away from.  What do you think that could be?  Will the Council cross some moral boundary Harry can't accept or will it be something closer to home, like the Council learning about Bob and, or Bonea and demanding they be destroyed?  What scenarios have you thought up that would push Harry to take such an extreme action?     

I've thought about this quite a bit, actually it is another of my favorite passages from the series, mainly because Rashid is one of my favorite characters.

In answer to your question, it may be a moral line that the Council crosses, but it won't be a simple line.  It may be a gray area of the Laws of Magic he will ask them to go into, or it's a situation so dire, that some of the Laws have to be broken to prevent disaster.  The Merlin and the Senior Council will fall back on the non-involvement clause in their charter, basically CYA for wizards.  Harry will argue that it is a moral imperative that they do become involved.  If they refuse they are no better than any black magic wielding warlock out there, also pointing out some of the hypocrisy on the part of some of the more august senior members, given their past behaviors.   In answer, they will either burn him down or follow him.. ::)  Either way, the Council will never be the same again after this.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 07:00:49 PM by Mira »

Offline Arjan

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2021, 07:06:29 PM »
Harry will be too busy saving the world and as usual the white council only gets in the way or worse.
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Offline Mira

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2021, 07:09:45 PM »
Harry will be too busy saving the world and as usual the white council only gets in the way or worse.

Yeah, but he cannot do it alone, that is my point.. While Harry understands to make a cake you usually have to break a few eggs, the Council doesn't.

Offline forumghost

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2021, 08:19:12 PM »
I continue to be perplexed by this line being read like this. I thought the phrase "not your hour" was generally considered a reference to the bible quote that Jesus uses to refer to the crucifixion (ie  his death).

"It is not yet your hour" is Rashid telling Harry to stop being a twat and trying to throw down with the Council because he'll die if he does, and Harry dying will cause issues later.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 09:12:51 PM »
Harry is going back in time to fix something that's broken. And if you believe Odin he's already done it.  And after he does it, he's coming back. The Council is going to try and stop him. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.
I continue to be perplexed by this line being read like this. I thought the phrase "not your hour" was generally considered a reference to the bible quote that Jesus uses to refer to the crucifixion (ie  his death).

"It is not yet your hour" is Rashid telling Harry to stop being a twat and trying to throw down with the Council because he'll die if he does, and Harry dying will cause issues later.
Rashid is seeing reality branching.  You've seen the Mothers do this.  And Jim beat you over the head with it in Cold Days.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2021, 02:04:35 AM »
Any of the above could be true.

I personally think it will be because the White Council will up the pressure on him. After the events of Battle Ground, particularly his expulsion from the Council and warning from Ramirez, things are in place for a show down. Harry is rarely on the offensive. Mostly people try to bully him and he responds.

I don't know which book it will take place in. I don't think it will be the next one, or the one after that, or even the wrestling one. I'd say it will be the one before the BAT, the one with Dragons and all the big Hollywood moments. Assuming no new books are added. That being said, as the ante has been upped in the latest book it would make sense for it to happen next book. But it seems unlikely given what the book is about, same with the following two books.

Morris, I think you're pretty right about Rashid seeing branching timelines in that scene. I do also think there is a long running background game with time-travel happening. Not sure you have all the pieces but I think you're getting close.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2021, 07:35:42 AM »
Standard protocol, file a complaint and they assign you one standard hour to plead your case. GK, whose apparently a paperwork buff, was just explaining Harry had to follow protocol 😅

Offline Mira

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2021, 02:27:01 PM »
Standard protocol, file a complaint and they assign you one standard hour to plead your case. GK, whose apparently a paperwork buff, was just explaining Harry had to follow protocol 😅

It is more to do with the BAT, when Harry comes into full star born childness, maybe sooner than the Council is prepared for.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2021, 05:55:17 AM »
It is more to do with the BAT, when Harry comes into full star born childness, maybe sooner than the Council is prepared for.
not good with humor I see..

Offline Mira

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2021, 01:28:32 PM »
not good with humor I see..

Ever been called to court? :o

Offline Sattymike

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2021, 01:33:12 PM »
Maybe the WC will decide they need to use the fail safe to eliminate the prisoners of Demonreach before they can be released.  And Harry won’t won’t let them, as Thomas is still confined (let alone the impact to the local region).

Or maybe the WC will be fully under the control of Nemesis.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2021, 01:41:01 PM »
Ever been called to court? :o
yes? 🤔

Offline Mira

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2021, 03:08:20 PM »
yes? 🤔

Then you understand the lack of humor.... ::)

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: "It is not yet your hour."
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2021, 10:50:26 PM »
Then you understand the lack of humor.... ::)
not at all. Not. One. Bit. 😳🤔🤷‍♂️Especially since it wouldn't be court, more like a council meeting anyway.