Author Topic: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!  (Read 21760 times)

Offline Dina

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #135 on: October 19, 2020, 08:11:05 PM »
Sorry I was not clear. I agree with you, what Rudolph did was not a case of muscular memory. But there are other people in this thread who may disagree. For me, it was his excessively paranoia but still, his surprise it is a little weird. I thought TWG had made him shoot but I realized I was wrong because it would interfere with his free will. Still, conditions were created and probably He (They) guide the bullet, leading to an injury that gave her enough time for a goodbye without making his suffering too long.

Perhaps the surprise was because Rudolph knew he was pointing to another place and the bullet trajectory felt weird, as if in "Wanted".
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline BrainFireBob

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #136 on: October 19, 2020, 08:42:26 PM »
Sorry I was not clear. I agree with you, what Rudolph did was not a case of muscular memory. But there are other people in this thread who may disagree. For me, it was his excessively paranoia but still, his surprise it is a little weird. I thought TWG had made him shoot but I realized I was wrong because it would interfere with his free will. Still, conditions were created and probably He (They) guide the bullet, leading to an injury that gave her enough time for a goodbye without making his suffering too long.

Perhaps the surprise was because Rudolph knew he was pointing to another place and the bullet trajectory felt weird, as if in "Wanted".

He could have been aiming non fatal and was Cassius death-curse nudged

And there's two separate points being conflated:

What Rudolph did

What does muscle memory mean?

Offline Arjan

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #137 on: October 19, 2020, 09:00:08 PM »
If you are properly trained gun safety is second nature to you and you have to consciously think about shooting someone before you even move the gun in someone’s direction, remove the safety and put your finger on the trigger. Other actions are automatic like not aiming at someone and puting the safety on.

Of course if you are trained as a soldier in a battle situation your learned procedural memory is different but he is a police officer between civilians.

You can debate about every case in two books that Rudolph’s handling of his gun is discussed but the overal picture is clear. Gun safety is not second nature to him. He does the wrong thing automatically without thinking.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 09:02:58 PM by Arjan »
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #138 on: October 19, 2020, 10:18:20 PM »
It's non sensical and promotes a misunderstanding in anyone who hears it.
You're the only person I've ever encountered who has ever suggested that the term means or suggests that the muscles themselves remember. I'm also pretty sure BrainFireBob meant to link https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muscle%20memory.

You can debate about every case in two books that Rudolph’s handling of his gun is discussed but the overal picture is clear. Gun safety is not second nature to him. He does the wrong thing automatically without thinking.
This is my stance. I'm tempted to offer an argument about how second nature is a misnomer nonsense term.

Offline Dina

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #139 on: October 19, 2020, 10:23:14 PM »
Muscle memory are mechanical internalized movements, like turning the light on your bathroom when you enter it. Or like a gamer who automatically do the right key combo for a given action.

I am sure Rudolph has not shot things by accident many times, or he wouldn't be a) a policeman b) so smug in general. But I agree he probably is not that good with the gun, he is not an expert.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #140 on: October 19, 2020, 10:38:36 PM »
Muscle memory are mechanical internalized movements, like turning the light on your bathroom when you enter it. Or like a gamer who automatically do the right key combo for a given action.
Or keeping your finger indexed when you're handling your firearm until you're ready to fire?

I've lost electricity a lot recently. I can't tell you how many times I either started to or did actually flip the switch in the restroom with a light in my hand.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #141 on: October 19, 2020, 10:39:59 PM »
You're the only person I've ever encountered who has ever suggested that the term means or suggests that the muscles themselves remember. I'm also pretty sure BrainFireBob meant to link https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muscle%20memory.
This is my stance. I'm tempted to offer an argument about how second nature is a misnomer nonsense term.
Please do, I am going back to sleep soon  ;D
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Offline Dina

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #142 on: October 19, 2020, 10:45:39 PM »
Or keeping your finger indexed when you're handling your firearm until you're ready to fire?

I've lost electricity a lot recently. I can't tell you how many times I either started to or did actually flip the switch in the restroom with a light in my hand.

About the finger, I have not idea, but I don't think a policeman shoots so often that he develops a muscular memory, unless he trains everyday in one of those training courses (which I don't think is probable).

Yes. I was without electricity for a couple of hours Saturday night. I put some candles in the bathroom, so it should be a clear message of "there is no electricity". Well, I flipped the switched several times. Hubby did the same.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #143 on: October 19, 2020, 10:59:48 PM »
About the finger, I have not idea, but I don't think a policeman shoots so often that he develops a muscular memory, unless he trains everyday in one of those training courses (which I don't think is probable).
Police are usually only required to shoot once a year.

Yes. I was without electricity for a couple of hours Saturday night. I put some candles in the bathroom, so it should be a clear message of "there is no electricity". Well, I flipped the switched several times. Hubby did the same.
I felt stupid every time.

Offline Dina

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #144 on: October 19, 2020, 11:05:49 PM »
Police are usually only required to shoot once a year.
I felt stupid every time.
Yes, so did we.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Telynn

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #145 on: October 20, 2020, 12:34:43 AM »
I've seen a few videos of NBA players doing a tech free throw (with no one around them) and after the shot they start to go do the customary hand slap, fist bump thing.  Only no one is there.  I guess another word of this is habit.  A really, really ingrained habit.

Offline Mira

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #146 on: October 20, 2020, 03:02:55 AM »
I've seen a few videos of NBA players doing a tech free throw (with no one around them) and after the shot they start to go do the customary hand slap, fist bump thing.  Only no one is there.  I guess another word of this is habit.  A really, really ingrained habit.

I think that is the perfect word..  A really, really, bad ingrained habit that was going to get someone killed someday.  It finally did, it killed Murphy.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #147 on: October 20, 2020, 05:52:21 PM »
Muscle memory are mechanical internalized movements, like turning the light on your bathroom when you enter it. Or like a gamer who automatically do the right key combo for a given action.

I am sure Rudolph has not shot things by accident many times, or he wouldn't be a) a policeman b) so smug in general. But I agree he probably is not that good with the gun, he is not an expert.
no, and part of that I think is him getting picked up by whatever agency or hidden backers he's been working for. It moved him up the chain of command without him spending as much time on the beat. Dry training starts to lose its value if it's never but into action to reinforce it in your mind. Murphy never would have that issue, because she shot things early and often in her career. If you don't understand the value of your training it tends not to stick as well when your put under pressure.
You're the only person I've ever encountered who has ever suggested that the term means or suggests that the muscles themselves remember. I'm also pretty sure BrainFireBob meant to link https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muscle%20memory.
Mmm I wouldn't know because people keep using the information at their fingertips but not using their own understanding to explain 🤷‍♂️ information, knowledge and understanding, three totally different things yes?I just think the term promotes a false understanding is all.

Offline BrainFireBob

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #148 on: October 20, 2020, 06:33:40 PM »
Most people are hostile to just explanations.

You considered that the term could be misconstrued to imply something incorrect. However, for someone to make that assumption they'd have to be either ESL or extremely uneducated. Disputing as you did implied you thought that about other forum members. This engenders irritation and negative pushback, which you encountered.

The term is defined independently of its components. A basketball court does not imply a throne room filled with hollow ball-shaped baskets. The terms have other meanings.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Who really killed ... BG spoilers!!!!
« Reply #149 on: October 20, 2020, 08:38:34 PM »
Oh what a clever way to insult me and yet offer know explanation for what it means to you at the same time. I've encountered people misconstruing that particular turn of phrase for years now. And I did point out what rudy did had nothing to do with muscle memory now didn't I?