Author Topic: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.  (Read 6547 times)

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2020, 03:59:10 PM »
Well, unless we go back to the original theory that Maggie was in on the "create a Starborn" plan. Initially, most people seemed to think it was HER plan. Which it might still be.

The way Lash told it, Margaret didn't arrive at that plan until she met Malcolm.  So I'm thinking she knew about Drakul and how he turned out as a star born.  If she was indeed pressed to carry out the plan, she decided if it had to be, she was either going to use a different tactic or not do it at all.  She searched for a good man with a good heart and pure soul in hopes that her child would inherit at least some of that from him. Harry apparently did, and I've written about this before, it isn't for nothing that Harry is repeatedly told by people who knew his father that he inherited his good heart.  I also believe Malcolm was also in on the plan and agreed to it, that is why he tells Harry in his dreams of him, that he is sorry that he and his mother put so much on him.. Margaret too, in the soul gaze said she was sorry that so much is being asked of Harry.

Offline Rigil Kent

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
    • GURPS: Red Sky (Dresden Files RPG)
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2020, 05:10:56 PM »
Interesting theory I saw on Reddit (apologies if its on here somewhere as well), but a lot of the stories about the original Merlin is that he is the son of a mortal and an incubus. White Court vamps are referred to frequently as succubi which is the feminine version so the theory was that Mab was looking toward a possible second generation Merlin with the Harry/Lara wedding. It's an interesting theory if nothing else.
"My plan is sheer elegance in its simplicity."

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2020, 05:23:06 PM »
Interesting theory I saw on Reddit (apologies if its on here somewhere as well), but a lot of the stories about the original Merlin is that he is the son of a mortal and an incubus. White Court vamps are referred to frequently as succubi which is the feminine version so the theory was that Mab was looking toward a possible second generation Merlin with the Harry/Lara wedding. It's an interesting theory if nothing else.

According to Bulfinch's Mythology

Merlin was the son of a damsel seduced by a fiend, but baptized by Blaise, and so rescued him from the power of Satan.  He became an adept at necromancy.

In relation to the "British Prisoner" theory on Demonreach;

The Lady of the Lake entangled him in a thornbush by means of spells, and there he still sleeps, though his voice may be heard sometimes.

Could it be that Mab is the Lady of the Lake and she entrapped Merlin on Demonreach?  There he sleeps, but he will communicate from time to time.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2020, 05:38:34 PM »
According to Bulfinch's Mythology

Merlin was the son of a damsel seduced by a fiend, but baptized by Blaise, and so rescued him from the power of Satan.  He became an adept at necromancy.

In relation to the "British Prisoner" theory on Demonreach;

The Lady of the Lake entangled him in a thornbush by means of spells, and there he still sleeps, though his voice may be heard sometimes.

Could it be that Mab is the Lady of the Lake and she entrapped Merlin on Demonreach?  There he sleeps, but he will communicate from time to time.
I thought maybe Lea was
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2020, 05:45:06 PM »
I thought maybe Lea was

That is possible too since her role back when Mab was Winter Lady according to Jim was the same as Jennygreenteeth. 

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2020, 09:58:50 PM »
Changes. It's revealed that Ebenezer was the target of Ariana because she knew. Think it was in the denoument.
Yup, that was it.  Thanks.

So it's combining these:
Quote
   Ebenezer shook his head. "A dinner. Maggie - my Maggie -
asked me to a dinner. She'd just taken up with that Raith
bastard. Arianna was there. Maggie didn't warn me. They had
some scheme they wanted my support on. The vampires
thought I was just Maggie's mentor, then." He sighed. "I
wanted nothing to do with it. Said she shouldn't want it, either.
And we fought."
Quote
   "She did," Ebenezer confirmed. "I don't know why, but for
some reason she turned away from her previous associates -
including Justin DuMorne. After that nowhere was safe for her.
She ran from her former allies and from the Wardens for
perhaps two years. And she ran from me. I had my orders
regarding her as well."
Quote
   "It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the
circumstances of your birth - because of why you were
born, Harry. Your mother found the strength to escape Lord
Raith for a reason."
   ...
   "There was a complex confluence of events, of energies, of
circumstances that would have given a child born under them
the potential to weild power over Outsiders."
Quote
   "Oh, wizard," Drakul chided me. "Their immaculate
beardlinesses have you in the dark even now? As one
starborn to another, I must say it seems unseemly in the
extreme."
   ...
   Something ugly flickered in that smile for a few beats.
Then Drakul shook his head. "I would tell you to ask of your
own White Council what they aren't willing to tell you, what
they bred you for, and what they expect you to do."
Quote
   Martha continued as if I hadn't spoken. "Bitter. Angry.
Obsessive."
   Ebenezer frowned. "Seems to me he has good reason to be.
You and the rest of the Senior Council saw to that."
   Martha shook her head. "You know what he was meant to
be. He's too great a risk."
Quote
   "We owe you," he confirmed. "But it ain't about debt. There's
some secrets that do worse than get you killed. A whole hell
of a lot worse." He eyed me. "You need to trust us."
   ...
   "You get through tonight," Listens-to-Wind said, "you give
me a little time. I'll be your advocate. I'll speak on your behalf
to the others."
   ...
   "I'm a wizard, Hoss. Which means I'm arrogant." He smiled
a little. "But not that arrogant. That's how big this is, boy.
I, a senior wizard of the White Council, don't think I'm smart
enough to make this call alone."
   ...
   He snorted through his nose. "The people I need to talk to?
Make it a year."

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2020, 04:58:59 AM »
We know that these stories are his journals which does seem to indicate he will live, but there are so many ways that could actually come about.  I.e. he dies in the trilogy but due to his foray in GS he becomes something similar to Bob, etc...
The most likely answer to how Harry could write the journals after everything happens and be dead is explained in PT. He has spoken with Mort and Uriel to ensure he will leave a ghost to watch over Maggie.

Interesting theory I saw on Reddit (apologies if its on here somewhere as well), but a lot of the stories about the original Merlin is that he is the son of a mortal and an incubus. White Court vamps are referred to frequently as succubi which is the feminine version so the theory was that Mab was looking toward a possible second generation Merlin with the Harry/Lara wedding. It's an interesting theory if nothing else.
He probably would have to have been one whose first time was a true love experience. Jim has said that a wamp practitioner can't get to the level of a White Council wizard.

@Griffyn612: But whose why and whose reason? It wasn't necessarily Maggie's.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2020, 02:46:23 PM »
@Griffyn612: But whose why and whose reason? It wasn't necessarily Maggie's.
If we assume there's a major event that has been foretold on the horizon during Maggie's time (aka the BAT), and it's known that Starborn are integral to reality surviving, then I could see Maggie wanting a Starborn on her side, sharing her mindset, rather than the mindset of Drakul or the White Council (Rashid has been theorized as being a Starborn) or whatever other factions have one.

So she decides to make one, but needs help from nefarious powers to make it happen. She puts together her Dark Council, tries to recruit Eb but fails, and proceeds. In the process, she realizes Raith is using her and has no intention of advancing her cause, so she escapes and goes on the run.

Then Malcolm, pregnancy, pending death, request to Morgan to watch over Harry, death, continued monitoring by the Council because she told them everything, Malcolm's death, Harry's disappearance, then rediscovery after DuMorne's death. Seniors then decide to keep him around just in case.

The question is, did the Seniors secret him away from Morgan and into DuMorne's hands, to forge their own weapon, only DuMorne went too far and ruined it?

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2020, 03:10:45 PM »
If we assume there's a major event that has been foretold on the horizon during Maggie's time (aka the BAT), and it's known that Starborn are integral to reality surviving, then I could see Maggie wanting a Starborn on her side, sharing her mindset, rather than the mindset of Drakul or the White Council (Rashid has been theorized as being a Starborn) or whatever other factions have one.

So she decides to make one, but needs help from nefarious powers to make it happen. She puts together her Dark Council, tries to recruit Eb but fails, and proceeds. In the process, she realizes Raith is using her and has no intention of advancing her cause, so she escapes and goes on the run.

Then Malcolm, pregnancy, pending death, request to Morgan to watch over Harry, death, continued monitoring by the Council because she told them everything, Malcolm's death, Harry's disappearance, then rediscovery after DuMorne's death. Seniors then decide to keep him around just in case.

The question is, did the Seniors secret him away from Morgan and into DuMorne's hands, to forge their own weapon, only DuMorne went too far and ruined it?
Lea’s role in all this is crucial. Margaret probably saw the gates at some point because she compared notes with the gatekeeper and was close to Lea.

At a certain point she understood the purpose of winter and decided to help. It also was part of her deal with Lea. Her close relations with the Sidhe make no sense otherwise.

A star born was both necessary and dangerous during the next apocalypse.
She decided to gave birth to one. Or the child being star born was part of her deal with Lea.

But a life story of Margaret is incomplete without Lea.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24056
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2020, 06:25:29 PM »
Quote
The most likely answer to how Harry could write the journals after everything happens and be dead is explained in PT. He has spoken with Mort and Uriel to ensure he will leave a ghost to watch over Maggie.

No, it doesn't.  All Harry was saying is once he decided to be a father, he made arrangements with Mort and Uriel so he could remain as sort of a guardian angel for his daughter, he is neither an angel nor is he a ghost per say.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2020, 06:28:47 PM »
Lea’s role in all this is crucial. Margaret probably saw the gates at some point because she compared notes with the gatekeeper and was close to Lea.

At a certain point she understood the purpose of winter and decided to help. It also was part of her deal with Lea. Her close relations with the Sidhe make no sense otherwise.

A star born was both necessary and dangerous during the next apocalypse.
She decided to gave birth to one. Or the child being star born was part of her deal with Lea.

But a life story of Margaret is incomplete without Lea.
I'm not sure where Leah comes into things. Obviously she was tasked with watching over Harry, and was acquainted with Leah, but I don't know if Leah was involved in the Starborn plot, or aware but not involved, or clued in after Maggie went on the run. 

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2020, 06:31:15 PM »
No, it doesn't.  All Harry was saying is once he decided to be a father, he made arrangements with Mort and Uriel so he could remain as sort of a guardian angel for his daughter, he is neither an angel nor is he a ghost per say.
No but he can stay as a shade just as in ghost story and if Maggie has talent which is almost certainly the case an experienced wizard shade would be of great help. He can live in bonea's skull so it would be one happy family.

Much like sir Stuart for Morty actually.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2020, 06:33:16 PM »
I'm not sure where Leah comes into things. Obviously she was tasked with watching over Harry, and was acquainted with Leah, but I don't know if Leah was involved in the Starborn plot, or aware but not involved, or clued in after Maggie went on the run.
Margaret and Lea were BFF's really
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2020, 06:55:49 PM »
Margaret and Lea were BFF's really
Were they? What do we really know about their relationship?

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Mab is grooming Harry to be a new Merlin that restarts the white council.
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2020, 07:15:18 PM »
Were they? What do we really know about their relationship?
Margaret was called LaFey and Lea was her only Sidhe contact mentioned. Lea knows intimate things about how she sees life and how that changed. From every small thing I read I get the impression they were pretty close.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]