Author Topic: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]  (Read 10768 times)

Offline morriswalters

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2020, 07:22:55 PM »
Pretty sure Jim mentioned at one point that his Wife getting axed was what led to him hiding Maggie, so presumably she had little say in the matter.
Yeah, according to the timeline she either died near the birth or as much as ten years after.  Vague to the point of uselessness.

Offline Mira

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2020, 03:03:59 PM »


 I think the reason Lea is Harry's godmother is because he is star born.  I think Mab and company had a lot to do with Margaret being able to pull it off in the first place,  I include Rashid in that as well.

Offline Dina

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2020, 10:19:06 PM »
We will see  :)
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline SerScot

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2020, 01:40:24 PM »
So, is anyone going to criticize Harry for calling Eb out for abandoning him to the foster care system, or, defend Eb’s choice to do just that?  Eb didn’t offer any defense his actions claim he couldn’t find Harry or any other such justifications that have been offered in our discussions over the years.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Mira

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2020, 01:57:20 PM »
So, is anyone going to criticize Harry for calling Eb out for abandoning him to the foster care system, or, defend Eb’s choice to do just that?  Eb didn’t offer any defense his actions claim he couldn’t find Harry or any other such justifications that have been offered in our discussions over the years.

Yeah, his only defense was it was to keep him safe.  Really?  Frankly that isn't a good enough reason for Harry, not considering what he suffered because of that.  Eb sort of admitted he messed up with Margaret, but only as far as his mentor-ship when she was his apprentice.  Eb still either doesn't get it or won't admit that what he saw as keeping his daughter and grand son safe, is rightly seen as neglect by both of them, and as Harry said, it didn't work out very well.

Offline SerScot

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2020, 02:07:56 PM »
Yeah, his only defense was it was to keep him safe.  Really?  Frankly that isn't a good enough reason for Harry, not considering what he suffered because of that.  Eb sort of admitted he messed up with Margaret, but only as far as his mentor-ship when she was his apprentice.  Eb still either doesn't get it or won't admit that what he saw as keeping his daughter and grand son safe, is rightly seen as neglect by both of them, and as Harry said, it didn't work out very well.

Yes.

Eb seems to discount anything but supernatural threats.  If Harry were abused physically or sexually by foster parents was he “safe”?  Additionally, Harry disappearing from WC circles makes Eb safer from manipulation via Harry. 

So, I wonder who Eb was seeking to protect with his choice to abandon Harry?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2020, 03:52:34 PM »
So, is anyone going to criticize Harry for calling Eb out for abandoning him to the foster care system, or, defend Eb’s choice to do just that?  Eb didn’t offer any defense his actions claim he couldn’t find Harry or any other such justifications that have been offered in our discussions over the years.
IMO Eb did what he thought was best for the survival of his family. The feelings of said family did not matter. So making Harry vanish from everyone he considered threatening at that time, did make sense, though his methods might not have been so nice. I hope he did not kill Malcolm, because I had the impression he thought M. was good for Harry. But not good enough to protect his grandson. It could be he killed him or arranged for him to be killed, but I don't want to believe that.

Harry's reaction in this chapter was completely understandable. OK, he went a bit far with the death threat.
And both of them could have been more diplomatic, but diplomacy seems to be missing in this family ;).
Let's say they both said things that were right about each other from their point of view, but they said them in a bad way.
I hope they talk a bit more later, including listening to each other.
I really would like to know if Eb was responsible for the bad parts of Harry's childhood and what he has to say about that, other than criticizing Harry's decisions.

I think Eb's choices regarding his family were to protect them. And he was showing a great deal of paranoia in it. But there was a reason for that, it wasn't completely wrong. I mean, Maggie Jr was targeted by the Red Court to get to him.


Offline SerScot

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2020, 04:06:28 PM »
IMO Eb did what he thought was best for the survival of his family. The feelings of said family did not matter. So making Harry vanish from everyone he considered threatening at that time, did make sense, though his methods might not have been so nice. I hope he did not kill Malcolm, because I had the impression he thought M. was good for Harry. But not good enough to protect his grandson. It could be he killed him or arranged for him to be killed, but I don't want to believe that.

Harry's reaction in this chapter was completely understandable. OK, he went a bit far with the death threat.
And both of them could have been more diplomatic, but diplomacy seems to be missing in this family ;).
Let's say they both said things that were right about each other from their point of view, but they said them in a bad way.
I hope they talk a bit more later, including listening to each other.
I really would like to know if Eb was responsible for the bad parts of Harry's childhood and what he has to say about that, other than criticizing Harry's decisions.

I think Eb's choices regarding his family were to protect them. And he was showing a great deal of paranoia in it. But there was a reason for that, it wasn't completely wrong. I mean, Maggie Jr was targeted by the Red Court to get to him.

I’m not so sure.  I have, from time to time, wondered if Eb is the upstanding guy we want him to be.  Harry misjudges people, his instincts have been shown to be wrong. 

For example Hendricks, despite Harry’s impression of him is shown in the Marcone short story to be an intellectual who dislikes Marcone’s business but is loyal to Marcone for some other unspecified reason.

What if he’s wrong about Eb too?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2020, 04:19:12 PM »
I’m not so sure.  I have, from time to time, wondered if Eb is the upstanding guy we want him to be. 
Oh, no! Yes, I have my doubts, too, but I really hope, he isn't.
What if Eb is a big evil asshole and the Merlin is actually quite nice and hates him and his ally/grandson because of that. Oh my. That would be.... Damn.

Edit: He has been the Blackstaff for a while and he has done things.
Does he feel bad about anything he did? For example dropping that satellite on Ortega's place and killing not only him but the humans around.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 04:24:10 PM by Regenbogen »

Offline SerScot

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2020, 04:33:52 PM »
Oh, no! Yes, I have my doubts, too, but I really hope, he isn't.
What if Eb is a big evil asshole and the Merlin is actually quite nice and hates him and his ally/grandson because of that. Oh my. That would be.... Damn.

Edit: He has been the Blackstaff for a while and he has done things.
Does he feel bad about anything he did? For example dropping that satellite on Ortega's place and killing not only him but the humans around.

That... would be a very interesting story.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Mira

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2020, 06:33:33 PM »
Quote
I think Eb's choices regarding his family were to protect them. And he was showing a great deal of paranoia in it. But there was a reason for that, it wasn't completely wrong. I mean, Maggie Jr was targeted by the Red Court to get to him.


But how did it work out?  The thing is the very thing he did to keep them safe, ripped the family apart ending almost in total disaster..  It makes no sense at all, unless one buys that there is still something more complicated about it that Eb is still keeping from Harry.   However based on what he knows now, not just the pain and suffering he experienced, but what ultimately happened to his mother, Harry is totally right in raising his own daughter as he is.  Eb's argument for or excuses for doing what he did is a poor one,"keeping them safe" is way to vague, and comes out more like he couldn't be bothered. 

Offline Linnemir

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2020, 01:51:10 AM »
I have been ambivalent about Eb for a very long time, and this just helped me crystalize why.

Eb is andhss been selfish, self-centered, and stubborn when it came to his descendents. Let's face it, babies and small children are a lot of time consuming work. Kinda hard to take off at the drop of a hat to  fulfill your wizardly duties when the baby sitter has already been eaten by a monster!

So he did it the easy way - hide Maggie Sr. And Harry until they were useful to him by using magic, and if they had no power? Well, they got along just fine without him, so why open a can of family worms?

My memory may be sliding, but other than taking Harry as an apprentice and Chicken Pizza, when did Eb actively help Harry with anything? He only got involved during CP after Harry mentioned the bloodline curse and Eb realized that he was in danger!

Sorry, but I just lost all sympathy for Eb when he was ready to repeat his mistake a third time!
A mind is a terrible thing to lose ... now, where the heck did I leave mine?

Offline Mira

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2020, 02:28:11 AM »
Quote
Sorry, but I just lost all sympathy for Eb when he was ready to repeat his mistake a third time!

What really irked me was unless they showed talent he wasn't interested or seemed to care what happened to them. But come to think of it, he is the Blackstaff, the Senior Council's assassin would
be a cold bastard on top of everything else.  And yes, one can have all kinds of morals and values and still be a cold bastard.

Offline Dina

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2020, 05:34:00 AM »
I’m not so sure.  I have, from time to time, wondered if Eb is the upstanding guy we want him to be.  Harry misjudges people, his instincts have been shown to be wrong. 

For example Hendricks, despite Harry’s impression of him is shown in the Marcone short story to be an intellectual who dislikes Marcone’s business but is loyal to Marcone for some other unspecified reason.

What if he’s wrong about Eb too?

Harry instincts have been wrong, yes, but he has soulgazed Eb. I don't think he is so wrong about him. Besides, Eb reaction to Harry's words were (IMHO) more like a caring parent who does not want to admit that what he did was wrong than like a bastard who does not care at all-
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Arjan

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Re: WAG McCoy [SPOILERS PT Ch4 + mf "Journal"]
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2020, 09:05:36 AM »
Harry instincts have been wrong, yes, but he has soulgazed Eb. I don't think he is so wrong about him. Besides, Eb reaction to Harry's words were (IMHO) more like a caring parent who does not want to admit that what he did was wrong than like a bastard who does not care at all-
But also a parent who can not properly start a discussion with his 40 year old grandchild. It is difficult because you will always see him as your baby but at a certain moment you need to handle him as an adult.
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