Author Topic: "That Stunt with Mab"  (Read 6141 times)

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2020, 11:54:50 PM »
The con was only partly about who got what artifact.  The most important element was getting Nicodemus to break his contract with Mab.  Now if Nicodemus had left no survivors, it wouldn't have mattered, but he did and that meant everything.  Now no one will trust Nic or deal with him.  His strongest potential allies; his ex-wife and Lasciel are one; not in any mood to be helpful; and two, currently trapped in a coin under several tons of rubble inside Hades vault.  Add to that, Nicodemus got his ass handed to him; and word of that must have been spread far and wide by now; so there's a loss of face; plus, Nic lost (murdered) his closest and most reliable ally, his daughter Deirdre. 

The condition of one or both of Nic's potential allies may change in the long-run.  Plus, Nic did get the grail.  However, I think the one factor everyone seems to have forgotten is that Nicodemus still has one of the coins in his possession.  My guess is that coin isn't a simple thug denarian like Ursiel.  I think Nicodemus needs someone capable of being a truly useful ally to carry that coin.  The Genoskwa was just a thug so a thug's coin was perfect for it to carry.  I don't think Nicodemus wanted someone as capable as Goodman Grey to be just another thug on his payroll.  Nicodemus seems to be quite aware that the endgame is coming soon and he needs to marshal all his strength and assets to accomplish his goals.  Part of the beauty of Mab, Kringle and Marcone's plan, was it made it exponentially more difficult for Nicodemus to find someone the caliber of a Goodman Grey, who would be willing to even do a sit down with him and eventually take up the coin formerly held by his daughter.   
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 07:04:40 AM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2020, 03:47:26 AM »
Plus, if he knew Harry had come out with the true Shroud, he'd probably have swallowed his pride and asked to try it on Helen Beckit's daughter where the fake failed.
Wild thought, what if it didn't fail?

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2020, 09:40:25 PM »
I think Harry would know because it would change Marcone so much that they could soulgaze again. At least that is my guess

"It was a dry and cool place, inside Gentleman Johnny Marcone. Except for one dim corner. There, hidden away from his everyday thoughts, there lurked a secret shame. I couldn’t quite see what it was. But I knew that somewhere in the past there was something that he would give anything to undo, would spill blood to erase. It was from that dark place that he drew his resolve, his strength."

It might even be to the degree that the easiest way for Harry to "win" over Marcone would be to heal Beckits kid.

Offline toodeep

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2020, 11:59:49 PM »
His strongest potential allies; his ex-wife and Lasciel are one; not in any mood to be helpful; and two, currently trapped in a coin under several tons of rubble inside Hades vault. 

Hmmm.  I had not considered the fact that the denarians may actually be more fractured because of this.  Good point.  I wonder if this is the case, of if Nic came up with a really good plan whether his wife's fallen angel would still talk her into supporting him.  Makes me wonder what her goals are compared to his.

Offline g33k

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2020, 03:30:13 AM »
... His strongest potential allies; his ex-wife and Lasciel are one; not in any mood to be helpful; and two, currently trapped in a coin under several tons of rubble inside Hades vault.  Add to that, Nicodemus got his ass handed to him; and word of that must have been spread far and wide by now; so there's a loss of face; plus, Nic lost (murdered) his closest and most reliable ally, his daughter Deirdre. 

The condition of one or both of Nic's potential allies may change in the long-run.  Plus, Nic did get the grail.  However, I think the one factor everyone seems to have forgotten is that Nicodemus still has one of the coins in his possession.  My guess is that coin isn't a simple thug denarian like Ursiel.  I think Nicodemus needs someone capable of being a truly useful ally to carry that coin.  The Genoskwa was just a thug so a thug's coin was perfect for it to carry.  I don't think Nicodemus wanted someone as capable as Goodman Grey to be just another thug on his payroll...

I'm pretty sure Nic recovered all the coins (but I realize that is debated).  It is clearly a HUGE strategic issue for the Denarians.  Nic would have done so if at all possible.

When Michael & Harry were double-teaming him, Nic vanished, and they couldn't tell where he was.

When Harry fought Ursi/Gen to cover the others' retreat, Nic was free to recover Lasciel's coin.  Then Gen got Genosquashed, and everybody ran for the Gate.  Nic grabbed Gen's coin while they were running.
 

Offline toodeep

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2020, 05:59:47 PM »
While I suspect you are right because the coins are meant to "stay in circulation" to some degree, it is hard to see him recovering the coin that was buried under semi-molten rock, and only slightly more likely that he would be able to collect the one in the middle of the active icey crush-o-matic that killed Ursiel.  I suppose Ursiels coin might have rolled out of the chopper, considering their nature.

Offline g33k

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2020, 06:21:33 PM »
... it is hard to see him recovering the coin that was buried under semi-molten rock ...

Some of the rock was molten, but lots of it was in chunks; and even the molten portion would have mostly been just on the edge of molten, ready to crust over quickly.  There were plenty of interstices and openings.

The shadow / Anduriel can, I think, reach in through those openings, and take no harm from the heat.

... and only slightly more likely that he would be able to collect the one in the middle of the active icey crush-o-matic that killed Ursiel ...

Anduriel lets Nicodemus fly; and fly very very fast, at that.  They'd really only have to worry about one spot of the icey crush-o-matic, not the whole course; and just the split-second they swoop in to grab the coin.  They watched Harry study the patterns and "solve" the whole maze... surely Nic is bright enough to figure the pattern for the one spot.  Then they only need to worry about blocks dropping out of the shadows above.  But:  Master of Shadows, yo; Anduriel isn't going to have a problem with this.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2020, 06:26:16 PM »
This is actually something I have been a bit sceptical about on my somethings re-read. So Harry was the ice expert, but when it comes down to it could the Genoskva (and maybe Nic) have done the gate of Ice better than Harry? Or was it a lot easier to start in the cold end and then go to the "warm" end

Offline g33k

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2020, 06:45:32 PM »
This is actually something I have been a bit sceptical about on my somethings re-read. So Harry was the ice expert, but when it comes down to it could the Genoskva (and maybe Nic) have done the gate of Ice better than Harry?

Not Gen.  Harry ran the course twice.  Gen died the first time through.

But yeah, I think the evidence is that Nic could have just flown over it, and thrown the switch.

I don't think Anduriel knew precisely what the "Gate of Ice" was, ahead of time.  If it had been more like high-speed hail, for example, I don't think Nic/Andy could have made it... or a simple mini-glacier, 100 yards of pure wall-to-wall & floor-to-ceiling ice.
 

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 07:12:47 PM »
Hmmm.  I had not considered the fact that the denarians may actually be more fractured because of this.  Good point.  I wonder if this is the case, of if Nic came up with a really good plan whether his wife's fallen angel would still talk her into supporting him.  Makes me wonder what her goals are compared to his.

If Tessa is even really in the driver's seat. Besides Imariel, there's a very real possibility she's also N-fected.

Offline Arjan

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Re: "That Stunt with Mab"
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2020, 09:32:54 PM »
At the end of skin game Tessa does not direct her anger at Nicodemus but at Michael and his family. No contemplation about how she lost her daughter. Imariel and Anduriel have a good grip on their victims.

They will work together again. They already did attacking Michaels house.
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