Author Topic: "Job placement" microfiction  (Read 2210 times)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2020, 05:46:42 PM »
According to Rashid, Peabody did a lot of messing with Luccio's mind, further he enhanced her existing propensity for violence to set her up to murder LaFortier.
I think he just directed it.

Offline Avernite

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2020, 07:49:47 PM »
No, Luccio was one of his main targets.   Turn Coat page 399 Rashid's conversation with Harry.

There is a lot more about it on the page.
My point is NOT 'Peabody didn't mentally manipulate Luccio'

My point is 'Peabody didn't use the ink to mentally manipulate Luccio, he used direct mind magic'.

The conclusion to Turn Coat says in Ch47  'A test of the inks he used to attain the signatures of the Senior Council', 'It is my (Eb's) belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council'.

And more circumstantial about the others being different, in Ch49 the Gatekeeper tells Harry "I've been working with the Wardens and administrative staff whose minds Peabody invaded" - making clear that wasn't just inks.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2020, 08:15:36 PM »
Eb finishes talking about Peabody's use of the ink with
Quote
it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright.
It's not clear whether or not he meant that Peabody used the ink to compromise their free will.

I don't see how the Gatekeeper's statement makes it clear that Peabody didn't use the inks to invade their minds. It just makes it clear that Peabody did invade their minds.

Peabody's reaction to Harry not signing for the file (Ch. 17) indicates that he was going to use the ink to invade Harry's mind. It's also demonstrated that they are alone in that section of the headquarters. This indicates that Peabody couldn't just manipulate someone's mind if they were alone. It indicates that Peabody needed something more than direct magic to manipulate even younger wizard's minds. We can be reasonably sure that he wasn't able to manipulate Harry with direct mind magic. (I don't know precisely what you mean by direct magic, but I'm assuming evocation).

Now it could be that Peabody needs more time than he was going to have with Dresden to do anything, but I think there is a good argument that he used the ink to mind bend all or most of his victims. I don't think there is anything decisive either way.

The point that Luccio was one of Peabody's main targets is evidence that he used ink on her. It's just very weak evidence if raised alone.

Offline Avernite

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2020, 10:33:18 PM »
Eb finishes talking about Peabody's use of the ink withIt's not clear whether or not he meant that Peabody used the ink to compromise their free will.

I don't see how the Gatekeeper's statement makes it clear that Peabody didn't use the inks to invade their minds. It just makes it clear that Peabody did invade their minds.

Peabody's reaction to Harry not signing for the file (Ch. 17) indicates that he was going to use the ink to invade Harry's mind. It's also demonstrated that they are alone in that section of the headquarters. This indicates that Peabody couldn't just manipulate someone's mind if they were alone. It indicates that Peabody needed something more than direct magic to manipulate even younger wizard's minds. We can be reasonably sure that he wasn't able to manipulate Harry with direct mind magic. (I don't know precisely what you mean by direct magic, but I'm assuming evocation).

Now it could be that Peabody needs more time than he was going to have with Dresden to do anything, but I think there is a good argument that he used the ink to mind bend all or most of his victims. I don't think there is anything decisive either way.

The point that Luccio was one of Peabody's main targets is evidence that he used ink on her. It's just very weak evidence if raised alone.
I agree there's nothing decisive, though I left that last bit of Eb's statement out on purpose as equal.

You could argue that it means the inks could be used to mindbend outright, or I could argue it shows how grossly, based on investigating just the inks, Eb underestimated what Peabody could do. "it is entirely possible" compared to "basically every younger warden had his or her mind remodelled to some extent with a stop-switch, up to and including suicide bomb level like Luccio".

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2020, 11:16:11 AM »
I agree there's nothing decisive, though I left that last bit of Eb's statement out on purpose as equal.

You could argue that it means the inks could be used to mindbend outright, or I could argue it shows how grossly, based on investigating just the inks, Eb underestimated what Peabody could do. "it is entirely possible" compared to "basically every younger warden had his or her mind remodelled to some extent with a stop-switch, up to and including suicide bomb level like Luccio".

 It wasn't just Eb who underestimated Peabody, the whole damn Council did, witness the damage he did at his trial.   It was the ink, without the ink Peabody couldn't of pulled off the mind influence. The ink acted as a mind numbing drug for lack of a better word, then Peabody was able to suggest all kinds of things and because of the ink, the victim no matter how experienced or powerful wasn't aware that he or she was being manipulated.   Luccio was merely the most overt, most of the influence was much more subtle,  effecting Senior Council decisions for years and no one noticed.  That is why I think it was Eb, said the Council would have to go back at least ten years to revisit all
the decisions it made. 

Most young wizards weren't effected simply because most of them weren't in positions where they'd come in contact with the secretary for the Senior Council demanding that they sign this paper or that paper that often or at all.  That is what saved Harry's butt, even though he had moved up the Warden command chain, he hardly if ever went to headquarters.  Interesting that one of the first things when he did show up he was harassed by Peabody wanting him to "sign" this paper or that, which being Harry, he didn't do.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 01:12:46 PM by Mira »

Offline Avernite

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2020, 01:40:17 PM »
It wasn't just Eb who underestimated Peabody, the whole damn Council did, witness the damage he did at his trial.   It was the ink, without the ink Peabody couldn't of pulled off the mind influence. The ink acted as a mind numbing drug for lack of a better word, then Peabody was able to suggest all kinds of things and because of the ink, the victim no matter how experienced or powerful wasn't aware that he or she was being manipulated.   Luccio was merely the most overt, most of the influence was much more subtle,  effecting Senior Council decisions for years and no one noticed.  That is why I think it was Eb, said the Council would have to go back at least ten years to revisit all
the decisions it made. 

Most young wizards weren't effected simply because most of them weren't in positions where they'd come in contact with the secretary for the Senior Council demanding that they sign this paper or that paper that often or at all.  That is what saved Harry's butt, even though he had moved up the Warden command chain, he hardly if ever went to headquarters.  Interesting that one of the first things when he did show up he was harassed by Peabody wanting him to "sign" this paper or that, which being Harry, he didn't do.
Most young Wardens WERE affected, hence why Peabody could put them all on pause as he made a run for it.

And your first paragraph is purely speculative, especially "without the ink Peabody couldn't of pulled off the mind influence"; we know mindbending without inks is possible (see Molly and Corpsetaker), so the question is, did Peabody use the inks on everyone and then something else on top for the youngsters, or did he use the inks on people whose minds he couldn't really remodel (and so he needed a more subtle way in) while using direct mind magic on more susceptible targets.

Based on exposure (how much ink was a run-of-the-mill warden exposed to? He admittedly tried for a bit with Harry) and estimated effect (what Eb thought Peabody could've achieved after investigating the inks), I believe the inks were not his major weapon on younger wizards, but only on the Senior Council.

Online Arjan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2020, 02:12:55 PM »
Quote
A test of the inks he used to attain the signatures of the Senior Council for various authorizations revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects

The ink was just there to make mind manipulation easier for Peabody. He used it on Listen to Wind, he tried to use it on Harry. He probably used it on Luccio to. No reason not to use it when it makes everything easier.

Except that it makes also handy evidence if found.
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2020, 03:14:53 PM »
Circumstances alter cases. Nobody ever detected it until they looked. So he did whatever he needed to do. If the ink was easy to make, then he would use it as a matter of course. On the other hand, if it was difficult to produce he would use it on targets which provided the most bang for the buck. But there is no indication that he used it everywhere on everybody. And in any case he was skilled at mind magic since he operated for years and was never directly detected doing it.

Online Arjan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2020, 04:06:18 PM »
The first time Peabody is shown in Summer Knight he already uses his ink to influence things:

From Summer Knight:
Quote
He looked to one side, where a slim-faced, prim-looking wizard sat with a quill, a bottle of ink, and pages and pages of parchment. "Wizard Peabody , will you consult the registry?"

A few moments later:
Quote
Peabody reached under his table and came out with a bulging satchel. He muttered something to himself and rubbed some ink onto his nose with one finger, then he opened the satchel, which held what looked like a couple of reams of parchment.
Quote
His eyes glazed over slightly
, and he reached into the papers seemingly at random. He drew out a single page, put it on the desk before him, nodded in satisfaction, then read in a reedy voice, "Wizard Montjoy."

I did not check it but I think he is always mentioned together with his ink as seemingly inseperable. Me I would never use that even before the computer they invented ball points and those are far more convenient.
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Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2020, 05:46:58 PM »
The first time Peabody is shown in Summer Knight he already uses his ink to influence things:

From Summer Knight:
A few moments later:, and he reached into the papers seemingly at random. He drew out a single page, put it on the desk before him, nodded in satisfaction, then read in a reedy voice, "Wizard Montjoy."

I did not check it but I think he is always mentioned together with his ink as seemingly inseperable. Me I would never use that even before the computer they invented ball points and those are far more convenient.

 Exactly, and I believe I wrote a post connecting the passages to what happened in Turn Coat shortly after it came out.

Quote

And your first paragraph is purely speculative, especially "without the ink Peabody couldn't of pulled off the mind influence"; we know mindbending without inks is possible (see Molly and Corpsetaker), so the question is, did Peabody use the inks on everyone and then something else on top for the youngsters, or did he use the inks on people whose minds he couldn't really remodel (and so he needed a more subtle way in) while using direct mind magic on more susceptible targets.

No one said it wasn't possible without the ink, but usually the victim, especially an experienced wizard knows when someone is messing with his/her mind directly.  They had no clue and all were exposed to Peabody's ink at one time or another.
Quote
The ink was just there to make mind manipulation easier for Peabody. He used it on Listen to Wind, he tried to use it on Harry. He probably used it on Luccio to. No reason not to use it when it makes everything easier.

Except that it makes also handy evidence if found.

Indeed, but the catch was because all were under the influence they didn't suspect it.  Only Harry who wasn't exposed began to put two and two together.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2020, 05:30:44 PM »
Why didn't Peabody use mind magic on Harry when Harry went to Peabody's office?

Online Arjan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2020, 06:04:04 PM »
Why didn't Peabody use mind magic on Harry when Harry went to Peabody's office?
Peabody tried to get his ink on Harry but that failed. Apparently Peabody needs the ink to be successful or he decided it was just too risky to try it without his ink. A good reason to assume he used it most of the time.
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Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2020, 07:01:00 PM »
Peabody tried to get his ink on Harry but that failed. Apparently Peabody needs the ink to be successful or he decided it was just too risky to try it without his ink. A good reason to assume he used it most of the time.

  I think Peabody did need his ink, that is why he tried so hard to get Harry to sign some papers with his pen and ink.  Without the ink, the subject/victim is aware that someone is trying to get in their head..

Online Arjan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2020, 07:14:55 PM »
  I think Peabody did need his ink, that is why he tried so hard to get Harry to sign some papers with his pen and ink.  Without the ink, the subject/victim is aware that someone is trying to get in their head..
Not as good as Molly.
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Offline g33k

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2020, 09:29:29 PM »
I don't think we know enough to know if Peabody "needed" his ink, or if the ink just made his magic harder-to-detect (and thus less risky, more pervasive), or what the exact mechanisms were.

Harry dismissively labeled Peabody a "bureaucromancer," and I think in some ways that isn't far off, and ink is a central feature of his magic.  In the SummerKnight bit quoted above, Peabody appears to have used magical ink on himself.  Presumably, a different kind of ink, but still ...