Author Topic: "Job placement" microfiction  (Read 17328 times)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2020, 08:51:07 PM »
[1]Such as reporting in person to Edinburgh.

...[2]For whoever was counting potential deaths, remember that the “younger” Wardens, whom Harry mostly worked with and helped train, constitute somewhere around 240 of the 300 Warden roster figure we last had.

...[3]Marcone decided he’s tired of bearing such a big part of the bill for protecting Chicago from supernatural threats, and leans on those same administrators to open up the SI spigot again.

[4]Since Butters character arc was mentioned, I’ll point out that not only was his story arc capped by his choice to go out and sacrifice himself—which he had never done before.


...[5]Back on topic...as far as Irwin and Connie are concerned, I’m not sure whether or not they’ll be on Chicago in July, when school starts at the end of August. However, the fact that they’re moving into a staff apartment on campus at least makes that possible.

I’m wondering—assuming the two lovebirds are in Chicago in July when a Titan and her “army” show up—if they’re at enough risk that River Shoulders hears about it...and Shows Up. Jim has talked about all of the action figures he has on the shelf he hasn’t really had a chance to take down and play with yet. Along with the whole Senior Council, I kinda hope that River Shoulders would be another one.
1. The only wizard who shows up to Edinburgh less is Rashid, so I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't shown up in person. If he did, I'd bet it would likely be a short trip to sign some paperwork or something. He has probably at least updated his mailing address with them and gotten the new protocols.

2. We don't really know how many of the less than sixty wardens after DB were even the old guard. They could have been anywhere from Carlos's age to a few hundred years old. Likely they were unevenly distributed throughout that age range. We don't know how many of the +/-240 "new" wardens were old guard who came out of retirement either. We do know for a fact that Harry was enlisted after Carlos and that Harry is older. I do believe Harry said that the Wardens were now mostly young, and I do believe that Ramirez was the last warden to get a sword or in the last class of wardens to get a sword, so there aren't going to be a lot of wardens older than Ramirez. Another thing we don't know is how many of less than sixty remaining wardens have died between DB and TC.
Quote
The Wardens are the White Council's version of police and military,[1] numbering roughly two hundred strong prior to Dead Beat, when they fell to below sixty as a result of Red Court engagements,[2] now numbering over three hundred as of Turn Coat.[3]
https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Warden.

It we say Carlos is 60th oldest out of 300, then he is in the top fifth. Depending on who has been recruited and who has been doing the dying, that number could easily move 10% in either direction.

None of that is meant to imply that Carlos is considered an "old guard" warden. I'd say we can be as certain he is not as we can be about pretty much anything that hasn't explicitly been stated somewhere by Jim.

Unfortunately (probably actually fortunately because it could easily make the books ponderous tomes) I don't think Jim is likely to go into the level of detail that we as superfans crave.

4. It could be argued that he did that in DB a couple of times. Though it is definitely framed much more as though it is certain death in SG.

5. I figure it's more likely than not that they would be there in July, depending on how late the fall semester starts. They need to get settled in, learn about their jobs at the school, come up with their lesson plans, and do whatever pre-school year things teachers do. Though being there in July doesn't mean they'll be there during the time frame of the next two books either. The books could be early July, and they could arrive in late July or even early August, once again depending on when the fall semester starts.

As to whether River Shoulder's shows up, it depends on how much notice he has and how much of a direct threat to Irwin everything is. One thing we've been shown about Bigfeet is that they are slow to come a decision.

I don't know. I think it's a great way for a warden to operate. I'm not sure if there's a better way, given the universe as established, for a warden to find out what's going on. Harry's been wardening for about 15 years because he set himself up as a wizard p.i. He should also let S.I know he doesn't need any money if they come up against something they can't handle themselves.
It was my first post in this debate which was about a week ago. My premise has always been "it's a good idea." Harry's repeatedly been able to put his thumb in the eye of the Black Council/Nemesis/etc. because he was a p.i. or worked with S.I. My main point is that it won't make sense for Harry to ignore what have been very valuable sources of information without sufficient in text explanation. If the pacing of Harry's life picks up sufficiently, that'd be a good explanation. If he just stops, not so much.

What Harry really should do, that I'm 90-99% certain he won't, is restart his wizarding business but have employees who can handle a lot of the routine stuff. He could teach any number of lesser talents to do all sorts of things that would be a waste of his time. A lot of people in his world could investigate this or that case. It would actually be best to have someone who has little to no talent run the office because such a person could take advantage of technology. This way Harry could make money, help a lot of people (clients and employees), and find those cases that only a wizard can handle, so he isn't wasting his time finding lost car keys. It's basically what he's already done with S.I. He's brought them up to a level that they didn't call on him as much by Changes. (Actually, well before that, but I don't remember which book(s) he's said that in). He should move away from "Harry Dresden, Wizard P.I." to "Harry Dresden, CEO of Dresden's Wizardly Investigatons." Or something with better branding. It actually would be pretty fitting for him to have one more thing in common with Odin.

I think the closest he'll get to this is working with Karrin and maybe an assistant or two if some of the talents he's come across do become apprentices as some have predicted/hoped for.

Which I took to mean past tense.
I was saying that Harry already has sufficient time to do those things from Jury Duty and Zoo Day because he did. Harry wasn't done moving in as of mid May (Jury Duty). He had time to resolve a murder case. There are several large tasks that I expect he will have done by Mirror Mirror. Maybe Battle Ground if it doesn't follow almost immediately after Peace Talks. This would indicate to me that he is going to have more time in the coming books unless Jim pretty drastically changes the series, which he might.

I think our disagreement really boils down to a couple of misunderstandings and that you think the pacing of Harry's life is going to drastically accelerate over pre Changes levels/remain the same as the past three novels, and I think it's going to return to near normal pacing.

I would note, due to my pedantic nature, that Harry had plenty of free time between CD and SG. He just couldn't use it.

On my reading they were the "Men In Black" that represent the agents of the Library of Congress. I don't imagine there are too many federal groups that are aware (as an organization) of the supernatural world. And they were rather hostile in that comic. I don't know why but I feel they are tied to the Archive, but I can't remember why that sticks in my brain.
It's been a while, but my impression was they were hostile to the wolf people because they thought the wolf people were responsible for the attacks of the ghouls. Once they realized it was the ghouls, they were no longer interested in the wolf people.

Now all that was just my impression, and the comics, imo, leave a lot to be desired. Motivations are often unclear and conflict with things established in the novels and short stories.

I recall something similar about the Library of Congress and the Archive be mentioned in relation, but only really vaguely. I can't find a single entry on the word of jim site about the Library of Congress.

..................................................

Can anyone remember which book Jim said Christmas Eve is going to be at the end of? I'm assuming that it will not only physically be at the end of that book, but the events will take place after that book. I'm pretty sure he said it in his livestream with Priscilla from when the trailer dropped. JD is mid May, ZD is late May/early June, PT is July, and CE is obviously December 24/25. Are we all assuming CE is after BG, do we know it, or do some people think it's inbetween PT and BG?

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2020, 11:04:53 PM »

..................................................

Can anyone remember which book Jim said Christmas Eve is going to be at the end of? I'm assuming that it will not only physically be at the end of that book, but the events will take place after that book. I'm pretty sure he said it in his livestream with Priscilla from when the trailer dropped. JD is mid May, ZD is late May/early June, PT is July, and CE is obviously December 24/25. Are we all assuming CE is after BG, do we know it, or do some people think it's inbetween PT and BG?

I believe Peace Talks and Battle Ground were meant to be one book, but PT became to long, so he splitted the book in two.
So I would say, it takes place after BG, because it wasn't supposed to be a separate book.

This is from the timeline on his website:

"14 ASF, late February: Skin Game

14 ASF, mid May: Jury Duty, the short story from Unbound.

14 ASF, late May/early June: Day One, the Butters-POV story from Unfettered II, concurrently with Zoo Day, the Rashomon-style Harry/Maggie/Mouse POV story from Brief Cases. (Several weeks after Skin Game–h/t Eric Dawson)

14 ASF, July: Peace Talks

14 ASF, December 24th: Christmas Eve, a short story."

"ASF" meaning "after Storm Front"

https://www.jim-butcher.com/timeline
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 11:07:00 PM by Regenbogen »

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2020, 01:20:28 AM »
I believe Peace Talks and Battle Ground were meant to be one book, but PT became to long, so he splitted the book in two.
So I would say, it takes place after BG, because it wasn't supposed to be a separate book.
They were meant to be one book, but he did a lot of rewriting to make them into two books. See The Dresden Files Podcast, Episode 100: Prisicellie!. With that amount of rewriting, Jim could have then spaced the events out. Kind of like how nothing major happened (in Harry's life) after Grave Peril until Summer Knight.

I'm just trying to figure out if we know or just strongly suspect CE is after BG. If we know it, then we know that BG takes begins between PT and late December. Probably early December because Harry is probably going to need some time to heal after BG.

I am of the opinion that books are going to be pretty close to back to back, maybe a week or month apart or something instead of the usual average of nearly a year. I'm pretty sure Harry's going to get the crap kicked out of him in PT. He can't get too much more crap kicked out of him in BG if he hasn't had any time to heal, so I think he is going to have some time to heal. Or just get healed by magic like he did in Changes.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2020, 02:30:56 AM »
Yeah, hard to know isn't it? My guess is Battle Ground is after Christmas Eve...but there is no way to tell right now. I kind of hope it is as that way Christmas Eve isn't the latest thing in the timeline.


1. Don't disagree. I just think Harry should have.
2. True. We can only guess. I would tend to think the more experienced wizards survived, just based on that. But it isn't necessarily true. I know, I wish Jim would release a companion guide or something to help expand the universe. Maybe we could kickstart one! He might hate us for adding to his workload though. :(


Sorry, so much writing to rifle through. Sometimes it is hard to find exact sentences, I wasn't doubting you wrote it.
Don't get me wrong. Harry opening a buisness and managing a team of PIs and Wizards would be great. Sadly, I think the character just isn't the sort to do that. But you never know - that might be exactly what Dresden does. Maybe it would look a little something like Monoc Securities in the early days...

Assuming Karen survives, I can see them working together. But I think she is marked for death, and has been for some time. Listen to Dresden's theme song "Gone Away" by The Offspring again. Almost like a neon sign.

Tbh - I am expecting Mirror Mirror to start right at the end of Battle Ground. The classic "wait, where's Dresden?" and he's been sucked into a Mirror looking at the bad versions of all his buddies or some monsters etc. Corny, but classic.

Yep - I think that pretty much sums up our debate. Guess time will tell on it. It will be fun to see!

Is free time really free if you can't use it? A debate for the philosphers among us

Yeah - the comics do need a bit of work. I really wished though that the graphic novel versions had kept coming out. Would have been nice to see. I wonder if Jim didn't want to give too much away though... But anyway, I think they are the same group. Might have come off badly though. Upon thinking further about it I am not so sure that the Library of Congress is completely hostile to the supernatural. They are just managing it.

I can't find the quote or video that mentions the connection, but I am sure there is one about the Archive and Library of Congress. Serack, Quantus, Knnn etc. care to lend a hand?


Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2020, 02:50:23 PM »
Quote
2. We don't really know how many of the less than sixty wardens after DB were even the old guard. They could have been anywhere from Carlos's age to a few hundred years old. Likely they were unevenly distributed throughout that age range. We don't know how many of the +/-240 "new" wardens were old guard who came out of retirement either. We do know for a fact that Harry was enlisted after Carlos and that Harry is older. I do believe Harry said that the Wardens were now mostly young, and I do believe that Ramirez was the last warden to get a sword or in the last class of wardens to get a sword, so there aren't going to be a lot of wardens older than Ramirez. Another thing we don't know is how many of less than sixty remaining wardens have died between DB and TC.

I don't think that is relevant here,  Ramirez was made a Warden before Harry was, he got a Sword because Luccio was still in her old body and had the skills to do so.  With in days of Harry being made a Warden, Luccio lost her body to the Corpse Taker, and discovered shortly after that she lost the magical abilities that enabled her to match a sword to the skills and personality of her new Wardens.   I seem to remember though I don't have the quote or the time to look it up, but she actually said to Harry that she no longer had the skills since her change but it was no reflection on him as a Warden.   However another thought, what if she just thinks she doesn't have the skill anymore?  Peabody had messed with her though his magic ink..  Perhaps the last thing he wanted was for Harry to be given a sword matching his talents, even if he never was a great swordsman. 

Offline Arjan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2020, 04:01:41 PM »
I don't think that is relevant here,  Ramirez was made a Warden before Harry was, he got a Sword because Luccio was still in her old body and had the skills to do so.  With in days of Harry being made a Warden, Luccio lost her body to the Corpse Taker, and discovered shortly after that she lost the magical abilities that enabled her to match a sword to the skills and personality of her new Wardens.   I seem to remember though I don't have the quote or the time to look it up, but she actually said to Harry that she no longer had the skills since her change but it was no reflection on him as a Warden.   However another thought, what if she just thinks she doesn't have the skill anymore?  Peabody had messed with her though his magic ink..  Perhaps the last thing he wanted was for Harry to be given a sword matching his talents, even if he never was a great swordsman.
More likely she does not have the right body for her skills now. In time she might change that wiring a bit if she exercises her magic.
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Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2020, 07:25:45 PM »
More likely she does not have the right body for her skills now. In time she might change that wiring a bit if she exercises her magic.

  Yes, but the other possibility cannot be excluded simply because he also encouraged her to
have a love affair with Harry though the ink.   Just throwing that out there.

Offline g33k

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2020, 07:59:59 PM »
... Luccio was still in her old body and had the skills to do so ...
More likely she does not have the right body for her skills now. In time she might change that wiring a bit if she exercises her magic.

I don't think "skill" is quite the right term -- that implies a practiced, developed ability.  Luccio still had all her practical experience, all the "how-to" knowledge, and the developed "skill" that follows the practical experience and how-to knowlege.  Nevertheless, she cannot forge Warden blades.

I think there's some additional, inherent/inborn ability needed; it's not the case that any two wizards are "equivalent" as they enter apprenticeship.  Molly is great with subtle stuff, but Harry isn't.  Harry is a Starborn, but Molly isn't.

Luccio blames it on her new body, so it's presumably something physical (which includes neurological), not just an "attitude" problem.  As you say, @Arjan, she may be able to recover the ability, with enough practice.  Maybe it's "re-wiring" herself; maybe it's like exercising a weak muscle.  Maybe it's something else.  Maybe she'll never be able to.  Maybe we'll never find out, because she maybe she dies in the PT/BG duology (looks like Jim has "retired" her from being an active character; killing her off would be one of the deaths that could hit Harry particularly hard).
 

Offline Avernite

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2020, 09:01:18 PM »
  Yes, but the other possibility cannot be excluded simply because he also encouraged her to
have a love affair with Harry though the ink.   Just throwing that out there.
Pretty sure the ink was only for the old coots Peabody couldn't directly mentally remodel.

But yeah, while he was in there he might as well have tried to 'fix' her into being unable to make the swords. Or maybe the swords require the kind of dedicated focus that compromised minds are not capable of.

Who knows - but it's certainly an interesting idea if you (like me) want to see Harry wield a cool sword (since the holy ones seem to be for other people). But as a spell-slinger 1st class, and a gun-nut, it may not be so critical.

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2020, 10:09:09 PM »
Quote
Pretty sure the ink was only for the old coots Peabody couldn't directly mentally remodel.

No, Luccio was one of his main targets.   Turn Coat page 399 Rashid's conversation with Harry.

Quote
"I've been working with the Wardens and administrative staff whose minds Peabody invaded."
  "I heard."
"It appears," he said, choosing his words carefully, that the psychic disruption to Anastasia Luccio was particularly severe."

There is a lot more about it on the page.

Offline g33k

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2020, 11:15:31 PM »
Pretty sure the ink was only for the old coots Peabody couldn't directly mentally remodel.

"Old coots" would include Anastasia Luccio -- she's 200ish years of age (per WoJ she can recall the War of 1812, though she was young then and didn't much take note of it).

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2020, 01:20:07 AM »
Indeed, yet it also would seem the physical body has some impact. The understanding is that Anastasia would have been caught unawares and not taken steps as she had gotten so used to being an old coot, she forget the danger of being physically young again - and hence was vulnerable. So her 200 years didn't insulate her.


Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2020, 04:35:05 AM »


  The point is, old coot or not, Luccio was one of Peabody's main targets.  However lets not ignore that Peabody was after the young coots as well.  The only reason why Harry, a relatively young coot
was spared influence from the ink is he was never around headquarters to come in contact with it.  And when he did visit, Peabody tried his damnest to get him to sign paperwork.  The same goes for the rest of the younger Wardens.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2020, 07:02:59 PM »
Yeah, hard to know isn't it? My guess is Battle Ground is after Christmas Eve...

...

2. True. We can only guess. I would tend to think the more experienced wizards survived, just based on that.


...I wasn't doubting you wrote it.
Don't get me wrong. Harry opening a buisness and managing a team of PIs and Wizards would be great. Sadly, I think the character just isn't the sort to do that.

...

Assuming Karen survives, I can see them working together. But I think she is marked for death, and has been for some time. Listen to Dresden's theme song "Gone Away" by The Offspring again. Almost like a neon sign.

...

Is free time really free if you can't use it? A debate for the philosphers among us
I think Christmas Eve will be after BG, but I haven't seen anything that strongly supports anything one way or the other.

I'd agree that older wizards were more likely to survive because older generally means better in the DF, but I would also imagine that some of them still died. Just not as many as the younger wardens. In fact, we know that at least one died on Demonreach in Turn Coat and then Morgan died a little later, so we know some old guard wardens died.

Yeah, but I was doubting I expressed myself clearly enough, so I checked. Having checked, I figured I might as well share.

I agree that Harry is unlikely to turn his one man sole proprietorship into a real agency.

I honestly don't have an opinion on whether or not Karrin is on the chopping block.

Yes, because it helps my argument.  ;)

I don't think that is relevant here
Where's here? If it's who is senior out of Ramirez and Harry, then I agree. If it's why Ramirez is in charge of security instead of someone older, then it is relevant because there aren't a lot of older someone's to choose from.

Perhaps the last thing [Peabody] wanted was for Harry to be given a sword matching his talents, even if he never was a great swordsman.
Interesting. I imagine we'd find out soon because he's no longer messing with her mind.

Peabody tried his damnest to get [Harry] to sign paperwork.
I think Peabody always or almost always used the ink to establish his mind control because of the scene alluded to. IMO, it is the light touch that was reserved for the "old coots," which doesn't include Luccio because the brittleness of mind is apparently a physical consequence of age and Luccio isn't even physically older than Harry.

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2020, 08:45:09 PM »
Quote
Where's here? If it's who is senior out of Ramirez and Harry, then I agree. If it's why Ramirez is in charge of security instead of someone older, then it is relevant because there aren't a lot of older someone's to choose from.

I was talking about the fact that Luccio made a sword for Ramirez because he became a Warden some time before she had her body change, where as her body change happened right after Harry became a Warden so she wasn't able.  Don't think having or not having a sword is relevant to whom was put in charge.

Quote
I think Peabody always or almost always used the ink to establish his mind control because of the scene alluded to. IMO, it is the light touch that was reserved for the "old coots," which doesn't include Luccio because the brittleness of mind is apparently a physical consequence of age and Luccio isn't even physically older than Harry.

According to Rashid, Peabody did a lot of messing with Luccio's mind, further he enhanced her existing propensity for violence to set her up to murder LaFortier.