Author Topic: Peace talks excerpt indications  (Read 44283 times)

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2020, 04:54:24 AM »
If Jim really wants to drive home that the end of all things is just around the corner, both Eb and the Merlin will go down at the same time.
Throw in Rashid and it would really drive that point home.

To Kurtin's point about Eb being Harry's protector, I think Rashid has done more. Eb gets three out seven votes in Summer Knight to not turn Harry over. Rashid gets the entire Senior Council to give Harry a trial instead of turning him over. The next time we actually see the Senior Council act, it is again Rashid who prevents the Merlin from going after Harry. Michael comes through with the Council's children and brings in the votes to save Molly because Rashid delayed.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #106 on: February 21, 2020, 06:07:52 AM »
Throw in Rashid and it would really drive that point home.

To Kurtin's point about Eb being Harry's protector, I think Rashid has done more. Eb gets three out seven votes in Summer Knight to not turn Harry over. Rashid gets the entire Senior Council to give Harry a trial instead of turning him over. The next time we actually see the Senior Council act, it is again Rashid who prevents the Merlin from going after Harry. Michael comes through with the Council's children and brings in the votes to save Molly because Rashid delayed.

I agree about Rashid, however he does have his own agenda, remember in Summer Knight he was more like doing his own testing than protecting Harry from the Council.  He told Harry he would have killed him, himself if Harry had slipped up.  I think you are thinking of Proven Guilty,  I don't believe Eb was at the trial itself for Molly, he came in later at the same time as Michael, however it was Rashid that delayed things that kept Molly alive and supported Harry.

Offline noblehunter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 309
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2020, 05:13:40 PM »
Throw in Rashid and it would really drive that point home.

To Kurtin's point about Eb being Harry's protector, I think Rashid has done more. Eb gets three out seven votes in Summer Knight to not turn Harry over. Rashid gets the entire Senior Council to give Harry a trial instead of turning him over. The next time we actually see the Senior Council act, it is again Rashid who prevents the Merlin from going after Harry. Michael comes through with the Council's children and brings in the votes to save Molly because Rashid delayed.

I know it's because of dramatic reasons but the Council seems to have a severe problem with succession planning. Eb might be the easiest to replace (from a booms point of view) since any top-level talent could wield the Blackstaff, but Merlin and Gatekeeper don't seem to be so Macguffin enabled. The implication is that the strengths of the other Senior Council members don't overlap much, so there'd be a major capability loss if either of them got hit by a bus.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #108 on: February 21, 2020, 05:43:24 PM »
I know it's because of dramatic reasons but the Council seems to have a severe problem with succession planning. Eb might be the easiest to replace (from a booms point of view) since any top-level talent could wield the Blackstaff, but Merlin and Gatekeeper don't seem to be so Macguffin enabled. The implication is that the strengths of the other Senior Council members don't overlap much, so there'd be a major capability loss if either of them got hit by a bus.

  Talent wise, yes, Eb would be easy to replace as Blackstaff, many wizards on the Senior Council are as talented if not more than Eb and also equal or more in power.  The factor not so easy to replace is trust and integrity,  those who know what he is, trusts that he will not abuse his power.  This is the guy that can kill anyone and use all kinds of black magic doing it if he wanted without suffering any stain or blow back,  but he won't..  Eb knows he has the power to do it, but he also knows when he should and shouldn't do it.. That kind of restraint isn't so easy to replace.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #109 on: February 21, 2020, 07:15:22 PM »
If Harry gets out of the Winter Knight's gig I can see him becoming the Blackstaff, something that would go against his grain even more than being Winter Knight ...

I expect the WK-Mantle and the Blackstaff to play together in all sorts of "interesting" new ways for poor Mr. Dresden.

I expect Jim to dig that knife in and  t-w-i-s-t  it.

I expect Eb to fall in battle (probably against Outsiders), at/near the end of one of the novels, and Harry to pick up the Blackstaff right there, out of necessity, to wield it and end the battle.  But hey -- maybe that microfiction-tease'd fight with the Cornerhound is where Eb falls?  (Eb is a heavier hitter than Harry is; MUCH heavier.  I can't see Harry handling something that overpowers Ebenezer... except Outsiders.)

... However I don't see him getting out of it, I think it is too important in the fight ahead ...

Agreed.  I'm not clear if Mab's strategic goals for Harry involve her wielding a Starborn Wizard Knight against the Outsiders... or if she is finding a way to give the Winter Knight's mantle to a Starborn Wizard, for him to wield (more or less independent of her orders) against the Outsiders.

Possibly she sees both outcomes as acceptable.

What I think we will see is Harry will learn how to "take off" the Mantle at will; it's still there, still his; but he won't be the Mantle's, and he will have other things too.  Vadderung, after all, isn't ALWAYS Kringle (and very well may have another Mantle -- or several -- he sometimes wears, as well).

From a Doylist POV, for Jim's writing, I think we're seeing a bunch of anti-Outsider stuff getting added, bit by bit, into Harry's repertoire.  Soulfire is a bit of that origin-of-the-universe Creation energy; what better tool against anti-Creation Outsiders?  Winter powers... and Winter is the primary anti-Outsider combat force.  Warden of Demonreach.  Willpower (over and over again, Harry's willpower keeps getting more and more severely tested... and strengthened), which seems to be a key element in breaking Outsider's "psychic whammy."

Come the BAT, I expect all those tools will be available to Harry.  (I do include, BTW, Hellfire!  Harry doesn't much care for it, or use it; but I think he still has access to it, and WILL use it in the BAT).

Offline Dina

  • Has Collapsed Into a Singularity of Posts (a.k.a, "The Dina")
  • ***
  • Posts: 105314
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2020, 08:00:14 AM »
Personally, I believe that Harry will be the WK until the BAT but he will finished it from that job. I always believe Mab will order Harry to kill her (perhaps because she realizes she is going to be infected or something). That act will release Harry of his obligations to winter, as Mab promised never to order Harry to hurt someone he loves and it will become obvious that Harry loves her (not in a romantic way).

About Eb, given the short Christmas story I suspect we will lose him in PT. I am also worried about Rashid.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2020, 11:53:34 AM »
Personally, I believe that Harry will be the WK until the BAT but he will finished it from that job. I always believe Mab will order Harry to kill her (perhaps because she realizes she is going to be infected or something). That act will release Harry of his obligations to winter, as Mab promised never to order Harry to hurt someone he loves and it will become obvious that Harry loves her (not in a romantic way).

About Eb, given the short Christmas story I suspect we will lose him in PT. I am also worried about Rashid.

I like that idea! ;D

Offline didymos

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2020, 05:47:38 AM »
Something I think has been overlooked:
Quote
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 06:03:19 AM by didymos »

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2020, 01:52:01 PM »
Something I think has been overlooked:
(click to show/hide)
Just a sign that it is really a big bad baddie. Compare with the influence demonreach emits and Harry was totally unaware off until Michael told him in skin game.

Also compare with what happened when the red courts curse went of in changes as told in aftermath. Bad dreams. It can mean really big bad magic.

Harry has become more sensitive to it or it is really, really bad.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3913
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2020, 04:17:33 PM »
Come the BAT, I expect all those tools will be available to Harry.  (I do include, BTW, Hellfire!  Harry doesn't much care for it, or use it; but I think he still has access to it, and WILL use it in the BAT).

He pretty conclusively doesn't have access to it via Lash anymore. If she faked her own destruction and were still hiding in his head, her actions wouldn't have been a sacrificial act of love sufficient to create Bonnie.

Are you thinking he could realign Uriel's gift of soulfire to produce hellfire again on his own? Even if that were possible, it seems like the kind of thing that would pretty much require seriously darkening his own soul to accomplish.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2020, 06:16:43 PM »
He pretty conclusively doesn't have access to it via Lash anymore...
It just takes some knowledge, I think.  Most of Lash "went away" in the Raith Deeps, but everything that was "Lash" existed inside Harry's mind... was a part of Harry; Harry was (and presumably still IS, if he knows how) capable of it.

We know there were a few traces of Lash left (other than Bonea); a bit of music, etc.

Access to Hellfire could be one of those things Lash "arranged" to leave in Harry's mind.

(Alternatively, he could probably figure it out for himself, since (a) he is a wizard, & (b) he's used it before.)

Harry just doesn't use it because he doesn't like it. 
 

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2020, 08:20:14 PM »


   I don't think Harry needs Hell-fire anymore, between soul power, the Winter Knight mantle, and his own considerable KABOOM talents I think he is set.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2020, 09:50:12 PM »
I believe there was a woj something like angelic beings have both but what they use decides who they are. I think Harry can use hellfire but that would be a very negative choice, a choice for hell. Harry would fall.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2141
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2020, 09:55:21 PM »
I don't think Harry needs Hell-fire anymore, between soul power, the Winter Knight mantle, and his own considerable KABOOM talents I think he is set.

In Cold Days, Harry launched a Soulfire/Winter strike on HWWBh, who blocked almost the whole thing; and the one strike drained a LOT of Harry's power.

Come the BAT, he is going to need all the raw power he can get.

Hellfire seems to be its own power-source (almost like a portable Ley-Line), so it isn't as "draining" as Soulfire (and regular magic) is.

I'm wondering if Harry might be able to take the raw chaotic destructive power of Hellfire, and combine it with the reality/creation enhancing power of Soulfire.  I don't expect would be exactly easy to do (I think it'd scandalize poor Uriel).  But I don't think it's actually impossible (within the Dresdenverse), even though I think Bob described them as "opposites."


Offline didymos

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2020, 11:01:58 PM »
WOJ on hellfire/soulfire:

Quote
#259 “Does the same apply to hellfire/soulfire. What would happen if Harry were to take up Lasciel’s coin and then try to use soulfire and hellfire together? Would that result in Harry dying horribly?”
Those are different. They’re really two sides of the same coin–but they can’t really exist together like that. They aren’t explosively reactive, but they aren’t additive, either. Which one came into the person to be used would depend on the person who was using it, and what they were using it for.
Angelic types have access to both. Which one they use is partially what determines what /kind/ of angels they are. (Emphasis added)