Author Topic: Peace talks excerpt indications  (Read 3780 times)

Offline toodeep

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2020, 07:20:58 PM »
I think a key point to keeping Peabody from reeking of black magic was that while he “wired” all these people to give him control over them, he didn’t activate them until Turn Coat (that we know of).  It may be like throwing fire all day long every day – its not black magic until the fire kills someone.  So the act of loading them up with mental control “software” might not be black magic until the software is activated.

Offline Kindler

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2020, 07:32:50 PM »
Well, I am pretty sure Drakul is also an Outsider but anyway - it might no be a 'basic' monster, but it seems like a relatively low-level Outsider, which Goblins and other Fae seemed to be able to kill.

And from what Jim has said about Eb, he was even wilder and more gung-ho than Harry!

Unless the Cornerhound is specifically deadly in a certain way to Wizards or something, I don't really see why Eb would be more afraid in this situation than taking on Vampires or Demons or Faeries etc.

EDIT:
(click to show/hide)

Came here to mention Hounds of Tindalos. "Cornerhound" sounds like a slang description of one of those bad boys.

Offline Mira

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2020, 07:53:39 PM »
I think a key point to keeping Peabody from reeking of black magic was that while he “wired” all these people to give him control over them, he didn’t activate them until Turn Coat (that we know of).  It may be like throwing fire all day long every day – its not black magic until the fire kills someone.  So the act of loading them up with mental control “software” might not be black magic until the software is activated.

 That sounds like a plausible theory..  It fits with mine that the ink was deadening those areas of the mind that would detect manipulation, also behavior.  It is no secret that certain drugs can have a huge influence over brain chemistry.   That was the plan, and who better to carry it out than the secretary wizard who constantly needed senior wizards to sign and read his endless paperwork?

Offline Kindler

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2020, 08:07:21 PM »
Some of this stuff is spoiler-ish, but most of it is borderline. Read at your own risk.

By the way, if you like super weird, uncomfortable satire/humor, there's this series of videos by the comedy group Wham City. It's called the Children of the Mirror. I promise the concept of Hounds of Tindalos is crucial to understanding what the hell is going on in this series (which follows the True Art is Incomprehensible trope pretty well while also maintaining surface level entertainment):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFw0b8t4ICM&list=PLmu6JBK17BzjH0HBjhdUXc2IfrCRQGhcD

Interesting bit is that the Hounds weren't in Lovecraft's original works, but were added in by a different author, Frank Long, one of Lovecraft's good friends. I think it was the first time HP let someone else write for his setting. Lovecraft canonized it (what is and what is not canon in Lovecraftian fiction is always debatable, because so many other authors contributed to the universe over the past hundred-ish years. Pretty much EVERYTHING is canon as far as I'm concerned, Derleth's attempt at codification be damned) at some point a few years later in one of his longer pieces. I forget which.

Anyway, the Hounds are entities that are pretty much the perfect Pursuit Predator. If you catch the attention of one of them, they will hunt you FOREVER. There is basically zero escape. They can travel through any sharp-ish angle (hence, I assume, Eb's use of the term "Cornerhound"), like the end of a hallway.

You wanna know the best part? The really awesome, tinfoil-hattish part? The way you catch their attention is by traveling through f*&^ing time. The presence of one (or more) during Peace Talks is going to launch thousands of Time Travel WAGs (unless it's explained thoroughly in the book. Just saying "Ah, a mortal must've summoned one" won't be enough).

I mean... why specifically one of those, even if it's an Outsider? It's one of just three named Outsiders in 15 books—Walkers, Nemesis, and Cornerhounds (the "mistfiend" from Turn Coat I took to be a Nevernever creature that had been infused with Mordite rather than an Outsider itself. If it is indeed a true Outsider, then it's four). You very rarely hear Eb (or anyone, really) talk about different species or categories of Outsiders, just kinda "oh, that was an Outsider." Harry describes the scene at the Outer Gates as one in which most of those fighting have too little in common to really categorize. So I posit that if Eb can recognize this particular type of Outsider on sight, it must have appeared on the mortal plane often enough to warrant naming beyond "Outsider, Type 87645."

Offline Kindler

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2020, 08:38:29 PM »
I'd also like to point out that it took me a solid five minutes to realize that Eb was using a super dated term for "Yeah, most likely" when he says, "Belike." I seriously thought he was confirming that a specific person or entity was responsible for what they were seeing. Like Batman talking to Robin.
The green paint splattered across the wall, and Robin could still hear echoes of laughter.
"Is that what I think it is?" Robin asked.
"Joker," Batman confirmed.


I spent five minutes racking my brain for any previous mention of a Dresden villain named Belike. Kept thinking of Belloq from Indiana Jones.

Offline Dina

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2020, 08:53:05 PM »
It confused me a little too, until I deduced the meaning. I don't think I have ever read "belike" before.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2020, 09:33:12 PM »
It confused me a little too, until I deduced the meaning. I don't think I have ever read "belike" before.

Yeah, he wasn't naming anyone, Jim does use some older terms.  I am reading " Book of Lost Tales I" by J.R.R. Tolkien, in the back his son Christopher included a list of arcane terms that his father used.. What caught my eye was the word, "fey" was on the list.  I don't know how many of you remember but that is one of the words Jim used to describe one of the possible futures for Molly during her soul gaze with Harry back in Proven Guilty, a lot of us racked our brains over it...  This is what caught my eye;

Fey The old senses were 'fated, approaching death; presaging death'.  It seems unlikely that the later sense 'possessing or displaying magical, fairy-like, or unearthly qualities' (O.E.D. Supplement) was intended. '

Not the first part, but the the fairy-like, magical, and unearthly qualities would describe the future
Winter Lady as seen by Harry in his soul gaze with Molly.  Sorry for straying off topic a bit, but that really struck me when I read it the other night..  So it isn't shocking that Jim would throw in another arcane term like belike..

Offline Dina

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2020, 10:19:14 PM »
Well, it is not shocking because Eb is old, really old, so he sometimes speaks with arcane words. And about Fey I just thought Jim meant "fairy" and it fitted what happened later for Molly.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2020, 12:23:41 AM »
Madge was in Blood Rites.

If I remember correctly though, the ink was meant more for the Senior Council. ...

Most of them were anywhere from 16 to what, 25, maybe 30 for the oldest like Carlos?
Peabody wanted Harry to sign a receipt for the investigation file, so I assume he was going to use the ink on Harry.

Carlos was 25 in White Night. Turn Coat is three years later. So Carlos would only be about 28.

Offline g33k

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2020, 01:20:50 AM »
Peabody wanted Harry to sign a receipt for the investigation file, so I assume he was going to use the ink on Harry.

I'm pretty sure Peabody made several efforts to get Harry inked.  IIRC the main reason Luccio got romantically involved was to give Peabody someone on Dresden's inner circle.

Come to think of it...

WARNING:  new WAG upcoming (at least, one I haven't read before):

I suspect that Peabody was behind Harry's greycloak'ing in Dead Beat.  I'm sure Luccio would've considered "drafting" such a brawny combat-wizard anyway (for all the good reasons they discussed, there in Mac's), but I bet Peabody nudged her decision:  once Harry was an "official" of the Council, I bet Peabody would have expected he could get Harry inked in short order!

Then Luccio went and got a new body, un-ink'ed(!).  But young, and horny, and malleable, and extra-susceptible to his ink ...

...

... and by then, Peabody realized that Harry Dresden loved to be annoying and obnoxious, and would be exceedingly-difficult to get ink'ed.

So Harry gets a hot Italian girlfriend, and Peabody gets a close-up view of Dresden.
 

Offline Mira

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2020, 05:29:27 AM »
Well, it is not shocking because Eb is old, really old, so he sometimes speaks with arcane words. And about Fey I just thought Jim meant "fairy" and it fitted what happened later for Molly.

I also had thought the other meaning when I first read it in Proven Guilty, the one about death, not perhaps her own, but those she may cause someday.  I am still not totally convinced that the meaning was simply the fairy part.  Why? Because Molly has no problem with repeating the offense that put her under the Doom.  Now as Lady she has no restraints upon her at all if she so chooses. Most likely it is this quality that attracted her to Mab and Lea.  I also think Harry has always chosen to be a bit blind to that reality.  That might be the real fault that Lea saw in his training of her, he has never seen Molly as a killer, thus never shaped it to advantage.

Offline toodeep

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2020, 04:13:20 PM »
I originally wondered if it might really just be age making Eb’s hand shake.  I remember reading somewhere th at Eb is “getting up there” since he is far enough along a geriocrasy to get on the senior council.  But then I read that LaFortier was 270 when he died, and I think Mai is older than him.  Even was reportedly a “young buck” running around in the war of 1812 I though I heard Jim say, so if he was 30 then, he would only be about 230 in the series.  That gives him easy 40+ years more to go

Offline g33k

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2020, 06:06:10 PM »
I originally wondered if it might really just be age making Eb’s hand shake.  I remember reading somewhere th at Eb is “getting up there” since he is far enough along a geriocrasy to get on the senior council.  But then I read that LaFortier was 270 when he died, and I think Mai is older than him.  Even was reportedly a “young buck” running around in the war of 1812 I though I heard Jim say, so if he was 30 then, he would only be about 230 in the series.  That gives him easy 40+ years more to go
He's got much longer than than that, I think:  Eb is a STRONG wizard, and he tosses around some REALLY potent magic.  These are things WoJ says make the wizards longevity effect stronger.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2020, 07:38:35 AM »
And Mai is about 400 ish years old, so Eb has plenty to go. The Gatekeeper is over 1000 years old, which is likely also due to time-warp Nevernever stuff, maybe even some more serious "laws of magic" time travel.

But also it really isn't his age making his hand shake, as it is quite clear that he is shaking out of fear. The passage flat out states it.

Kindler - pretty much exactly my point in the edit. I had read about the Frank Long bit too but didn't want to include it as like you I agree that a lot of "Lovecraftian mythos" is not just Lovecraft himself and found it simpler not to. Should hopefully make Peace Talks a very interesting book, plus whatever else Jim has cooked up!

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2020, 01:41:43 PM »
@Kindler
The why is simply because Jim needed a new Monster Of the Week.  Why Eb may recognize this one is because he may have run into it on the retreat to Chicago in Proven Guilty. Michael's description is vague but it includes tentacles.
Quote
If you catch the attention of one of them, they will hunt you FOREVER.
  Just saying.