Author Topic: Malcolm's murder  (Read 1115 times)

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 10:28:49 PM »
The spell was completed by stabbing a living rabbit in the heart (and probably scooping out the heart).
Given it was a sharpened spoon, probably. Textbook voodoo doll stuff.

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In theory the wizard could have done something else to cause a person to die that would resemble an aneurysm...  I don't know what it is but who knows.
Certainly -- and it would be a different spell.

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An icepick stabbing into the animals brain?  A puncture mark should show up, but the heart exploding spell made it look like the explosion happened from the inside, and not that something had stabbed into the chest, and ripped the heart out, so maybe the damage to the brain could be done without showing the puncture mark.
I think the whole chest exploding does more to hide any potential puncture marks than anything else.

That said, that's why I like the entropy curse for this -- it doesn't seem to require the voodoo aspect, it just nudges probability until you die in whatever way is situationally appropriate.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2019, 05:31:37 PM »
That said, that's why I like the entropy curse for this -- it doesn't seem to require the voodoo aspect, it just nudges probability until you die in whatever way is situationally appropriate.

That's true, and if correct it means that Lord Raith (or if someone else murdered Maggie) is responsible for Malcolm's death.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2019, 06:17:05 PM »
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That's true, and if correct it means that Lord Raith (or if someone else murdered Maggie) is responsible for Malcolm's death.

Not necessarily. Other people can use entropy curses.

My personal theory is that it was Nicodemus. He knew Margaret, and knew about both her children, so he might have had reason to arrange something (especially if he had plans for a starborn--he almost certainly finds it easier to manipulate people into working for him if they didn't have happy and loving childhoods).

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2019, 11:35:53 PM »
Not necessarily. Other people can use entropy curses.
Yup. Consider that Lord Raith's entropy curse came from He Who Walks Behind.

And we know that Justin also associated with HWWB.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2019, 06:23:06 PM »
Yup. Consider that Lord Raith's entropy curse came from He Who Walks Behind.

And we know that Justin also associated with HWWB.

It would be interesting if Justin offed Malcolm to get his hands on a Starborn. Yet I wonder why Justin waited so long to adopt Harry afterward; there's like a six or seven year gap where Harry's living in an orphanage.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 06:27:43 PM »
It would be interesting if Justin offed Malcolm to get his hands on a Starborn. Yet I wonder why Justin waited so long to adopt Harry afterward; there's like a six or seven year gap where Harry's living in an orphanage.
I have a theory on that that's two-fold.

1. Justin might have suspected, but couldn't have known, that Harry had inherited Maggie's magical talent. It'd make sense to wait until it manifests before making the commitment to grabbing him.

2. Leaving Harry in The System for several years means that Harry is starved for familial and paternal figures. Look at the way Young Harry's memories gush over the slightest bit of praise that Justin gives him.

So waiting serves two purposes, first in making sure that Justin is actually getting a magically-able Harry, and second, in priming Harry to be that much more receptive to Justin's "rescuing."
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2019, 06:31:11 PM »
Okay, I can buy that.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2019, 01:25:32 AM »
There's a possibility it was Leanansidhe according to WOJ whatever the godmother deal was, it's something Harry will duel Leanansidhe for. Could be Malcolms murder.

There is more than one plausible explanation to this WOJ that involves the Leanansidhe.  One is that Lea was aware that Malcolm was going to be murdered but did nothing to interfere with the crime because protecting Malcolm wasn't part of the deal she made with Margaret.  Had she determined that protecting Malcolm was necessary to protect Harry she would have done so.

Another, more sinister explanation, is that Lea herself is the murderer.  Perhaps part of deal Margaret made with Lea was to protect Harry from supernatural threats.  Being a practical member of the Winter Court, Lea would have realized that the best way to protect Harry was to see that he could eventually protect himself, at least from the most obvious threats.  In order to achieve this goal, Harry would need someone who could teach him how to use his magic.  Justin DuMorne would fulfill this role until the time when Lea would teach Harry to defend himself from Justin. 

Under this scenario it's likely that Lea made a side deal with Justin to remove Malcolm.  Lea didn't have any animosity towards Malcolm and because of her respect for Margaret she made Malcolm's death as peaceful as possible.

By the way, even under the first scenario where Lea isn't the killer, just an impassive viewer; Lea may have decided that should Harry develop magical ability, Justin would be be a good teacher.  Again being a practical sidhe, this decision saved Lea from the type of effort she had to put in to train Molly.  The fact that Harry is institutionalized during his childhood in either scenario was irrelevant to Lea.  in her eyes it may have helped protect Harry from more mundane threats he might have faced as he moved from place to place with his father.         
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Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2019, 03:57:34 AM »
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Another, more sinister explanation, is that Lea herself is the murderer.  Perhaps part of deal Margaret made with Lea was to protect Harry from supernatural threats.  Being a practical member of the Winter Court, Lea would have realized that the best way to protect Harry was to see that he could eventually protect himself, at least from the most obvious threats.  In order to achieve this goal, Harry would need someone who could teach him how to use his magic.  Justin DuMorne would fulfill this role until the time when Lea would teach Harry to defend himself from Justin.

This makes a scary amount of sense. I really hope that this ends up being true now.

Offline Bacchus

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2019, 03:45:11 PM »
I absolutely love this.
Justin does train Harry in exactly the style Lea seems to prefer when training molly.
 If Lea decided that  Malcolm staying alive would keep Harry from learning magic effectively, he fits all the criteria she would look for.
All it takes is overbroad wording on how Lea should protect harry from ANY threats from Maggie Sr

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2019, 03:38:23 AM »
I would say that it is definitely likely that Malcolm was murdered - this is why he is able to interact with Harry in his dreams occasionally. In DB, Malcolm specifically says that he is able to speak to Harry because “others have crossed the line”.

To me this says that Malcolm was likely killed by someone evil (like Denarian) - the smile on his face is reminiscent of Shiro. And he likely knows Uriel & maybe even works for him.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2019, 09:24:38 AM »
There is more than one plausible explanation to this WOJ that involves the Leanansidhe.  One is that Lea was aware that Malcolm was going to be murdered but did nothing to interfere with the crime because protecting Malcolm wasn't part of the deal she made with Margaret.  Had she determined that protecting Malcolm was necessary to protect Harry she would have done so.

Another, more sinister explanation, is that Lea herself is the murderer.  Perhaps part of deal Margaret made with Lea was to protect Harry from supernatural threats.  Being a practical member of the Winter Court, Lea would have realized that the best way to protect Harry was to see that he could eventually protect himself, at least from the most obvious threats.  In order to achieve this goal, Harry would need someone who could teach him how to use his magic.  Justin DuMorne would fulfill this role until the time when Lea would teach Harry to defend himself from Justin. 

Under this scenario it's likely that Lea made a side deal with Justin to remove Malcolm.  Lea didn't have any animosity towards Malcolm and because of her respect for Margaret she made Malcolm's death as peaceful as possible.

By the way, even under the first scenario where Lea isn't the killer, just an impassive viewer; Lea may have decided that should Harry develop magical ability, Justin would be be a good teacher.  Again being a practical sidhe, this decision saved Lea from the type of effort she had to put in to train Molly.  The fact that Harry is institutionalized during his childhood in either scenario was irrelevant to Lea.  in her eyes it may have helped protect Harry from more mundane threats he might have faced as he moved from place to place with his father.       
Damn, it appears I stole your idea in another thread.  My apologies.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2019, 08:56:56 PM »
@KurtinStGeorge & morriswalters
My only issue with this scenario is why Lea would view Justin as the right person to teach Harry? He was never known as a teacher - no other former apprentices are mentioned (aside from Elaine). Additionally there is strong evidence that he was walking on the left-hand path - witnessed by his keeping Bob & likely summoning HWWB to track Harry after his thralling attempt fails. Sure, Lea could’ve been wrong, but I believe Harry says in GS that Lea had always kept an eye over him even when he was younger, so wouldn’t she be keeping a very close eye on what all Justin is upto?

I think it much more likely that Justin & Simon (so Cowl) got some knowledge (perhaps because he & Maggie were ‘friendly’ or through a demon like Chauncey) that there were 2 Starborns in mundane orphanages around the country ripe for the plucking. His goal seems to have been to round them up, train them, emotionally manipulate them & then enthrall them into his personal service.

I’m also a little unsure of why Lea thinks Harry can go back & defeat Justin as a 16 year old.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2019, 10:56:05 PM »
Lea seems to endorse "tough love" and, maybe, she felt the best way to fulfill her duties was to hone him into a weapon.
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: Malcolm's murder
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2019, 11:55:16 PM »
@KurtinStGeorge & morriswalters
My only issue with this scenario is why Lea would view Justin as the right person to teach Harry? He was never known as a teacher - no other former apprentices are mentioned (aside from Elaine). Additionally there is strong evidence that he was walking on the left-hand path - witnessed by his keeping Bob & likely summoning HWWB to track Harry after his thralling attempt fails. Sure, Lea could’ve been wrong, but I believe Harry says in GS that Lea had always kept an eye over him even when he was younger, so wouldn’t she be keeping a very close eye on what all Justin is upto?

I think it much more likely that Justin & Simon (so Cowl) got some knowledge (perhaps because he & Maggie were ‘friendly’ or through a demon like Chauncey) that there were 2 Starborns in mundane orphanages around the country ripe for the plucking. His goal seems to have been to round them up, train them, emotionally manipulate them & then enthrall them into his personal service.

I’m also a little unsure of why Lea thinks Harry can go back & defeat Justin as a 16 year old.
To go to town on this question you need details we don't have.
My current WAG is that Maggie was messing with the outsiders in some fashion.
But, 
Why did Justin need two bodyguards, and why a boy and girl?
We know she was involved in some kind of scheme as related by EB. 
It's implied but never stated that she might have been partially enthralled. 
Raith may have been trying to use her as a broodmare for a Star Born, and this may have been her scheme as devised by Raith and why Eb said he didn't want any part of it and neither should she.
This last is at least plausible considered in the light of Goodman Grey's comment that Maggie was a piece of work.

In addition when Harry talks to her in the Library, she says something I consider strange.
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"I made sure that his father would endure a fitting punishment for what he did to us."
"You and Thomas?"
"And you, Harry.
I know what he did to Thomas, and of course he killed her.  But what did he do to Harry?
And considering she was on the run, how did she meet Malcolm? 
And in some WOJ, why did Butcher drop the fact that she went to Washington DC while she was pregnant?
And finally in Blood Rites he mentions that when he tries to throw magic at Raith that it feels like Mordite where Raith is standing. Which seems to imply that Raitht's protection is a product of Outsider magic.
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Not just empty air and drifting dust, but nothing. A cold and somehow hungry emptiness that filled the space where he should have been. I'd felt something like it before, when I'd been near a mote of one of the deadliest substances that any world of flesh or spirit had ever known.