Author Topic: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers  (Read 158114 times)

Offline Syntopicon

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2007, 07:27:37 AM »
Gotta tell ya, that almost looks like France...
Mind the almost there.
Well believe me, Mike, I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway.

You've seen it!  You can't unsee it!

Offline Shuglin

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2007, 10:13:35 AM »
I could be wrong here but wouldnt garados(sp) and the pine barren's be west of bernarholdt? since the marat didnt come through the sea of ice to get to the pine barrens? maybe I need a reread but jus looking at the maps I dont see the why the pine barrens would be important for a marat invasion at the current position you have on your map tell me if im wrong here  :)

Offline Priscellie

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2007, 03:20:06 PM »
I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, so when I just dropped in and saw how much work had been done since I last saw the "original"... I'm blown away!  With no disrespect to the original, I'm so impressed at how it's actually looking like a real map now.  The geek in me (okay, what part of me *isn't* the geek?) is feeling particular glee at how the coast of the Canim bloodlands fits suspiciously well into the Carna's coast bordering the Sea of Ice.  It makes me think of how well South America fits into Africa, and the science of plate tectonics. 

Everyone involved in this project deserves a pat on the back!  I'm stickying this topic.  Belgarion, you might want to keep the first post in this thread updated with links to the latest version of the maps for easy access, like we do for the Timeline threads.

Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2007, 05:35:56 AM »
I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, so when I just dropped in and saw how much work had been done since I last saw the "original"... I'm blown away!  With no disrespect to the original, I'm so impressed at how it's actually looking like a real map now.  The geek in me (okay, what part of me *isn't* the geek?) is feeling particular glee at how the coast of the Canim bloodlands fits suspiciously well into the Carna's coast bordering the Sea of Ice.  It makes me think of how well South America fits into Africa, and the science of plate tectonics. 

Everyone involved in this project deserves a pat on the back!  I'm stickying this topic.  Belgarion, you might want to keep the first post in this thread updated with links to the latest version of the maps for easy access, like we do for the Timeline threads.

I've been putting the links in each of my posts. How do I keep the first post updated with the links? I'll be glad to do it, no problem.
Mikey

Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2007, 05:45:36 AM »
I could be wrong here but wouldnt garados(sp) and the pine barren's be west of bernarholdt? since the marat didnt come through the sea of ice to get to the pine barrens? maybe I need a reread but jus looking at the maps I dont see the why the pine barrens would be important for a marat invasion at the current position you have on your map tell me if im wrong here  :)

And to answer this you're not wrong, I have been thinking of moving the memorium south and more east below the causeway. It would make more sense for Septimus to have made a stand there. But the pines were definitely north of Bernardholt.  The Marat were out scouting the valley. I think the pine forest was just in the way.
I've been waiting for more suggestions before I update the maps. :) Keep questioning, it will help us make the maps more accurate.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/2102698480/    Map of Calderon Valley
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/2101250610/    Map of Alera BW CaF'd
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/2089370713/    Map of Alera  original
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/2090156276/    Map of Carna

Mikey

Offline Priscellie

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2007, 02:19:57 PM »
I've been putting the links in each of my posts. How do I keep the first post updated with the links? I'll be glad to do it, no problem.
Mikey

Just click the "Modify" button on that first post and paste 'em in!

Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2007, 11:20:16 PM »
Just click the "Modify" button on that first post and paste 'em in!

Done :). I'll keep the maps current at the top of the thread from now on.
 

Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2007, 01:23:39 AM »
Hmm. I was rereading CaF and found something.
When Durias was taking Tavi from Mastings to the battlefield, it took about 3 hours at a trot.
Horse speeds at a trot average 8 to 10 mph. So the minimum distance from Mastings to the battlefield is likely about 24 miles and possibly as high as 30 miles. I'm going to look at the CaF map to determine if I have to adjust the battlefield position in relation to Mastings.
It still doesn't tell us how far Fellcove is from Mastings. We just know it's close.
M.

Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2007, 02:15:49 AM »
And I want to thank Jim for putting in more geographical references in CaF. It certainly makes it easier to work on the maps :) 

Offline AldrickWindWolf

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2007, 06:07:13 PM »
I've found a few problems here.
Aldoholt should be the closest to Garados. When they're fighting the Vord, they go to Aldoholt, planning to use it as a base or something (but they're all gooone!)
And Aquitaine should be in the north. It states quite a few times that it is, and that Aquitaine had northern support and Kalare had southern support.

Also, I don't remember it ever saying that Parcia and all those other nations were south of Kalare. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Offline Kathleen Dante

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2007, 01:06:06 PM »
In the Calderon map, the causeway is supposed to lead to Garrison. In FoC, it says, "The rear gates of Garrison stood open, and the causeway wound across the Valley and up to them."

When Tavi emerged from the barrens onto the causeway in FoC, he was "several miles west of the lane to Bernardholt." Currently, you have the barrens northeast of Bernardholt. Also, I got the impression that the barrens weren't between Garados and Bernardholt. When Tavi went to Amara's aid, Garados was close enough for Amara to suggest they seek shelter on Garados (apparently closer than the Princeps' Memorium which was about a mile away).

Possibly, the causeway "circles" the Valley on the way to Garrison with only spur lanes (roads) leading to the various holts.
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Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2007, 09:55:28 PM »
Taking a look and see what I can come up with :)
Mikey

In the Calderon map, the causeway is supposed to lead to Garrison. In FoC, it says, "The rear gates of Garrison stood open, and the causeway wound across the Valley and up to them."

When Tavi emerged from the barrens onto the causeway in FoC, he was "several miles west of the lane to Bernardholt." Currently, you have the barrens northeast of Bernardholt. Also, I got the impression that the barrens weren't between Garados and Bernardholt. When Tavi went to Amara's aid, Garados was close enough for Amara to suggest they seek shelter on Garados (apparently closer than the Princeps' Memorium which was about a mile away).

Possibly, the causeway "circles" the Valley on the way to Garrison with only spur lanes (roads) leading to the various holts.

Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2007, 01:12:11 AM »
Quote from: Kathleen Dante on Today at 06:06:06 AM
In the Calderon map, the causeway is supposed to lead to Garrison. In FoC, it says, "The rear gates of Garrison stood open, and the causeway wound across the Valley and up to them."

When Tavi emerged from the barrens onto the causeway in FoC, he was "several miles west of the lane to Bernardholt." Currently, you have the barrens northeast of Bernardholt. Also, I got the impression that the barrens weren't between Garados and Bernardholt. When Tavi went to Amara's aid, Garados was close enough for Amara to suggest they seek shelter on Garados (apparently closer than the Princeps' Memorium which was about a mile away).

Possibly, the causeway "circles" the Valley on the way to Garrison with only spur lanes (roads) leading to the various holts.


Ok. So far on page 33 of CuF, Bernard asks Tavi which direction they should look for Dodger, and replies North (Bernard agrees). "..Dodger has taken them into the pine hollows over the causeway."  eg pine hollows are north of causeway and Bernardholt

On page 38, Bernard and Tavi are standing on the bridge talking to Isana through Rill, and Tavi " shot an uneasy glance to the northeast, where the towering mountain of Garados sat glowering down on the inhabitants of the Calderon valley"
eg. Garados is Northeast of Bernardholt.

On page 54, they followed the trail through the pine barrons, and Tavi "ignored the glowering presence of the mountain." This is when they catch up to Dodger and his flock.  eg Garados was still ahead of them

I found a reference about when Tavi found Amara. On page 99,
"Tavi bit his lip, looking down the causeway toward his home and safety -- then facing the opposite way, toward the cry for help. He took a shaking breath and turned west, away from his home, ..."  eg implies that Amara was west of Bernardholt.

On page 102, the place where he finds Amara is a mile from the Princeps Memorium. "Then he (Tavi) turned his back on the looming shape of Garados and started off into the darkness" eg. the Memorium is S/SE/SW.

I'm trying to square all this in the map. It's definitely confusing, at least to me.
I'm going to continue to look at it. Maybe a light bulb will come on.

Mikey

Quote from: Kathleen Dante on Today at 06:06:06 AM
In the Calderon map, the causeway is supposed to lead to Garrison. In FoC, it says, "The rear gates of Garrison stood open, and the causeway wound across the Valley and up to them."

When Tavi emerged from the barrens onto the causeway in FoC, he was "several miles west of the lane to Bernardholt." Currently, you have the barrens northeast of Bernardholt. Also, I got the impression that the barrens weren't between Garados and Bernardholt. When Tavi went to Amara's aid, Garados was close enough for Amara to suggest they seek shelter on Garados (apparently closer than the Princeps' Memorium which was about a mile away).

Possibly, the causeway "circles" the Valley on the way to Garrison with only spur lanes (roads) leading to the various holts.
Mikey


Offline Kathleen Dante

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2007, 07:00:01 AM »
On page 38, Bernard and Tavi are standing on the bridge talking to Isana through Rill, and Tavi " shot an uneasy glance to the northeast, where the towering mountain of Garados sat glowering down on the inhabitants of the Calderon valley"
eg. Garados is Northeast of Bernardholt.

I'm trying to square all this in the map. It's definitely confusing, at least to me.
I'm going to continue to look at it. Maybe a light bulb will come on.

A couple more details to add to the pot:
The north bridge over the Rill where Bernard and Tavi talk to Isana is a footbridge for the lane heading north that connects Bernardholt to the causeway. It isn't a part of the causeway. On p.33, they're on a winding lane  On p.35, Tavi follows Bernard "on down the road ... toward the causeway".

On p.46, Isana in the kitchen at Bernardholt crosses to the northern window and eyes the mountain peak to the north.

On p.62, the cry of the second herdbane comes from the trees to the west of them, up the slope (of Garados). The pine barrens apparently run from the causeway to part of the way up the slopes of Garados and east of the mountain.

It's possible that the lane first runs on a northwesterly route from Bernard's steadholt to the Rill, then northeast from the north bridge to where it connects with the causeway somewhere near the pine barrens and some miles east of Garados.
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Offline belgarion

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Re: A Map (cont'd) Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2007, 02:13:09 AM »
A couple more details to add to the pot:

The north bridge over the Rill where Bernard and Tavi talk to Isana is a footbridge for the lane heading north that connects Bernardholt to the causeway. It isn't a part of the causeway.

On p.33, they're on a winding lane 

On p.35, Tavi follows Bernard "on down the road ... toward the causeway".

On p.46, Isana in the kitchen at Bernardholt crosses to the northern window and eyes the mountain peak to the north.

On p.62, the cry of the second herdbane comes from the trees to the west of them, up the slope (of Garados). The pine barrens apparently run from the causeway to part of the way up the slopes of Garados and east of the mountain.

It's possible that the lane first runs on a northwesterly route from Bernard's steadholt to the Rill, then northeast from the north bridge to where it connects with the causeway somewhere near the pine barrens and some miles east of Garados.


on 62 it really doesn't say Garados, it just says "A high, whistling screech came from the trees to the west of them, up the slope."

on 66 "The Marat rose and began to stalk southward after Tavi's wounded uncle."

on 66  "Tavi ran west to lead them away from his uncle."

Ok. So, taking all Kathleen's comments about the initial part of CuF, I made a tentative map,
Map of Calderon Valley revised 12/26/07
On Flicker:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/21582563@N03/2140031846/

I didn't put in the Rillwater yet. I'm after thinking it's due east of Bernardholt. The problems I'm starting to come up with are the geographical relationships that occur later in the book. Tavi and Fade get captured by the Marat and taken past Aldoholt on the way to the horto. It implies there is more than one way into the valley other than through the Garrison. It's also a long way from the Rillwater to the Garrison end of the valley.

See what you think.

And I haven't forgotten about AWW's comments, I just haven't gotten to them yet since they deal with the Alera Map vs the Calderon Valley.  I'll have to search through the pdf file I created of all the comments from the first thread:)

Mikey