Author Topic: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?  (Read 8870 times)

Offline vultur

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Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« on: July 07, 2018, 05:15:00 AM »
Molly used mind magic to break drug addiction. The side effects were pretty terrible, but Molly was also totally untrained (and with Rosie, who Molly wasn't angry at, I think it was still a net gain in the long run). I'd think that an experienced mind-mage could at least do somewhat better ... certainly get a result that was better than having your head chopped off.

I always figured the reason the White Council didn't do this to remove black-magic addiction/corruption was because it would corrupt the person trying it (and because the Third and Fourth Laws mean that Council members don't develop the skills needed anyway).

But... with the Blackstaff, breaking the Laws doesn't corrupt you...

Now, Eb himself might not have the right talents for this sort of thing (his magic seems more oriented toward "really big explosions... although, Harry's is too, and from Ghost Story it seems he was able to get some basic competence in mind magic in like a year or two of practice...). But is it possible?

Offline groinkick

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2018, 05:35:43 AM »
From what I saw it protects the wizard when casting dark magic.  I don't think it would work retroactively
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline peregrine

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2018, 05:47:44 AM »
Yeah.  From what we saw it seems to be a prophylactic, not a cure.

That said, it could possibly help someone else avoid the magical side effects if they were to force the "cure" on you.  Though there's still other side effects to consider besides a black magic taint.  Note that Molly's psychological damage to her friends was unrelated to the black magic and more because she didn't know what she was doing when she did it.

And using it to cure yourself is probably right out.  After all, you have to believe in what you're doing to use magic, and how many people can realize that what they believed in was the wrong thing all along, and decide to change themselves at a fairly basic level?  Which also means that any outside force trying to do magical therapy would likely be against the wishes of the recipient.

Offline vultur

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2018, 06:59:01 AM »
That said, it could possibly help someone else avoid the magical side effects if they were to force the "cure" on you.

Yeah, that's what I meant - that instead of executing warlocks, the Council could ask Eb to go into their minds and undo the black-magic corruption.

Offline Fcrate

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2018, 07:53:39 AM »
Why bother? Off with their heads, the council says.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline vultur

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2018, 08:34:42 AM »
Why bother? Off with their heads, the council says.

Well, it would be good for the Council as a whole if it became the standard policy. You're not killing off potential members - and slow recruitment was one of the Council's disadvantages vs the Red Court. And not killing warlocks means Wardens are less feared by Paranet types, thus better information & more chances of catching potential warlocks early.

Offline Fcrate

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2018, 10:06:22 AM »
Well, it would be good for the Council as a whole if it became the standard policy. You're not killing off potential members - and slow recruitment was one of the Council's disadvantages vs the Red Court. And not killing warlocks means Wardens are less feared by Paranet types, thus better information & more chances of catching potential warlocks early.
All valid points, and I've said as much in a different thread. However, the number of warlocks is increasing to an unprecedented degree. Such a process will surely be lengthy and draining on the wizard's energy (And mental health) there's only one black staff, and a shortage of people capable of wielding it correctly, even if you thought to pass it around, which is ill advised. Add that to the wizard's normal duties, and the special duties of the black staff, you'll reach the conclusion that even if it were possible, it would be counter productive.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline forumghost

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 01:23:03 PM »
Yeah, that's what I meant - that instead of executing warlocks, the Council could ask Eb to go into their minds and undo the black-magic corruption.

I mean the issue with that is that if you start meddling with peoples brain-meats to 'cure' them they wind up like Molly's friends as their subconscious tries to overcome the brainwashing, likely driving this hypothetical Warlock even more insane then the Black Magic would have done.

Offline peregrine

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2018, 03:41:12 PM »
Possibly, but there's some difference.  Namely undoing the taint, if done right, would be more like restoring to factory settings than fundamentally changing their personality, like Molly did.  Also, Molly didn't know what she was doing when she did it, and subconsciously wanted to hurt the guy.

That assumes all you'd be doing is undoing the taint.  In which case, you aren't doing anything to change the part of their personality that got tainted in the first place.

Wizard Sibelis

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2018, 07:47:36 PM »
Yeah, that's what I meant - that instead of executing warlocks, the Council could ask Eb to go into their minds and undo the black-magic corruption.
Why doesn't the council employ foo dogs? Or trust Harry since they know what they are for... I presume atl...

Offline groinkick

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2018, 07:57:16 PM »
Or trust Harry since they know what they are for

Why should they?  Isn't he supposed to be the manifestation of HHWB as you said?
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Wizard Sibelis

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2018, 08:06:26 PM »
Why should they?  Isn't he supposed to be the manifestation of HHWB as you said?
Yep. now you wanna uselessly cross over arguments here or what huh? don't like my idea? isn't that a shame....

Offline Arjan

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2018, 08:06:57 PM »
the main reason would be that you want to have some plausible alternative to the death penalty. if the only thing a warlock can expect is to get killed you have nothing to negotiate with, the warlock has no reason to surrender and every reason to take as many with him as possible. It makes them into cornered animals.

Possibly, but there's some difference.  Namely undoing the taint, if done right, would be more like restoring to factory settings than fundamentally changing their personality, like Molly did.  Also, Molly didn't know what she was doing when she did it, and subconsciously wanted to hurt the guy.

That assumes all you'd be doing is undoing the taint.  In which case, you aren't doing anything to change the part of their personality that got tainted in the first place.
You can meddle as much with someones brain as you want as long as you get the persons permission, it is just a form of healing after all. Give us permission to cure your black magic or we cut your head of probably counts.
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Offline forumghost

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2018, 11:03:16 PM »
Why doesn't the council employ foo dogs? Or trust Harry since they know what they are for... I presume atl...

I mean as we know evil/corrupted Foo Dogs are a thing, so Harry having one isn't necessarily an endorsement.

Offline peregrine

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Re: Could the Blackstaff Cure a Warlock of Corruption?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2018, 01:28:33 AM »
You can meddle as much with someones brain as you want as long as you get the persons permission, it is just a form of healing after all. Give us permission to cure your black magic or we cut your head of probably counts.
Eh....  Permission under duress might make it legal under the Laws of Magic.  But I don't know that, if you know that it's under duress, you wouldn't get the taint.  And giving permission under duress doesn't mean that the warlock wouldn't be trying to resist it all the same, getting that conflict and psychological trauma anyways.

Now, if for some reason a warlock did seriously repent and want help, and thus cooperate and consent to that, things would probably go easier for everyone involved.