Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?

[Mr. Death]

Interesting...  I want to see it in practice in the books.  If it's possible that should be one of the first things a bad guy does.  Like Sylar from heroes...  That kind of power starts to snowball if you actually steal the power from a few wizards.

The power listing in the game book specifically mentions "This is what gave the Nightmare not only Harry's form but also his advanced spell-crafting abilities," and says the victim is going to be either dead or diminished from the process.

[Quantus]

The power listing in the game book specifically mentions "This is what gave the Nightmare not only Harry's form but also his advanced spell-crafting abilities," and says the victim is going to be either dead or diminished from the process.

In GP, it latched onto him during a Dream, specifically on his belly Chakra, traditionally the house of the bodies Chi, which is what he said was sucked out of Harry.   But that was a Ghost attacking a living Wizard, so I dont know if the rules change. 

[Serack]

The Answer per a WOJ that Im looking for is "Yes, and it's Horrible."  I suspect two things: 1) odds are however it is accomplished would fall under one of the existing Laws of Magic (Id say 5/7 of the Laws could possibly make sense).  And 2) I think we've seen, or at least repeatedly heard mention, of this several loads of times since the Fomor came on the scene, I think this is precisely why they are collecting "magical talents" with no particular regard or preference for power levels. 


Serack, do you recall that WOJ?

I think the WoJ you are referring to is from the latest AMA and it's actually about if Goodman Grey could assume/steal a wizard's powers, which Jim said would annihilate his own personality in the process, being effectively a suicide. 

The type of stuff most of you guys are discussing seems to be ideas about stealing a wizards power that are more prevalent in Benedict Jacka's Alex Verus series. 

[groinkick]

I think the WoJ you are referring to is from the latest AMA and it's actually about if Goodman Grey could assume/steal a wizard's powers, which Jim said would annihilate his own personality in the process, being effectively a suicide. 

The type of stuff most of you guys are discussing seems to be ideas about stealing a wizards power that are more prevalent in Benedict Jacka's Alex Verus series.

Oh so by stealing a wizards powers in the Dresdenverse it's more like you become the wizard rather than just absorb their raw power for your own consumption?  The reason I thought it might be that way was Harry consumed the spirit, had access to it's form of magic but didn't actually become the person it had been.

[Zaphodess]

Oh so by stealing a wizards powers in the Dresdenverse it's more like you become the wizard rather than just absorb their raw power for your own consumption?  The reason I thought it might be that way was Harry consumed the spirit, had access to it's form of magic but didn't actually become the person it had been.

Split personality, sort of? He didn't like Kravos magic or his urges, so he shut them up real quick. I think he let it wither rather than use it, but he could have chosen otherwise.

It's not like Harry doesn't have a huge talent for ignoring and transforming strong influences on his soul.

btw: I like the concept how Harvesting works in the Alex Verus novels and it fits right into the Dresden verse imo. Doesn't have to be 1:1, but the basic idea is cool.

[peregrine]

Oh so by stealing a wizards powers in the Dresdenverse it's more like you become the wizard rather than just absorb their raw power for your own consumption? 

That probably says more about Grey than power.  He took on personality traits of even a pure mortal (we assume) when he turned into the bank manager.  It may not apply to everyone.

[Arjan]

Oh so by stealing a wizards powers in the Dresdenverse it's more like you become the wizard rather than just absorb their raw power for your own consumption?  The reason I thought it might be that way was Harry consumed the spirit, had access to it's form of magic but didn't actually become the person it had been.

Slightly more complicated because your own spirit is there as well but I think that is why mantles were invented, you have to isolate that much power otherwise it will overwhelm you immediately.

[groinkick]

Slightly more complicated because your own spirit is there as well but I think that is why mantles were invented, you have to isolate that much power otherwise it will overwhelm you immediately.

You know that's one thing that would be cool to see.  Someone actually craft a Mantle.

[Serack]

Oh so by stealing a wizards powers in the Dresdenverse it's more like you become the wizard rather than just absorb their raw power for your own consumption?  The reason I thought it might be that way was Harry consumed the spirit, had access to it's form of magic but didn't actually become the person it had been.

Pretty sure Jim was talking about what would happen to Goodman Grey, not anyone who does that kind of thing. 

[jonas]

Isn't there an entirely different woj(s) that says that the reason harry didn't keep Kravos' power was because there was no death/soul exchange? that you are what you eat, even if your a wizard? Because I always thought it explicitly implied the key to taking in and keeping power is death/soul infusion? same way the darkhallow works, stone table, ect. I assume because soul is they key to change, in order to have a proper fusion requires said key.

& I assume that having a soul mixed into the mantle is how a mantle is formed as a separate thing. not that it necessarily stays 'soul' as defined by human usage. but mantles seem to have their own 'spirit' if not consciousness.

[Zaphodess]

But Kravos was a ghost and Corpsetaker at least planned to consume plenty of ghosts for her version of the Darkhallow.

I'm confused ...

[jonas]

But Kravos was a ghost and Corpsetaker at least planned to consume plenty of ghosts for her version of the Darkhallow.

I'm confused ...

? corpsetakers dark hallow? What the wraiths? Ah, seems something slightly different goes on when pure spirits absorb other spirit/memories. Not sure what she was gonna do that was specifically like the dark hallow, Was she gonna eat the wraiths for a power? was it Halloween? Plus, all that power spirits have isn't any more permanent than Kravos'. It fades away as it is used up unless it is reconnected via memory gathering like Sir Stuart.

That makes the soul what in this equation? Change/growth? soul+memory=life?

[Zaphodess]

? corpsetakers dark hallow? What the wraiths? Ah, seems something slightly different goes on when pure spirits absorb other spirit/memories. Not sure what she was gonna do that was specifically like the dark hallow, Was she gonna eat the wraiths for a power? was it Halloween? Plus, all that power spirits have isn't any more permanent than Kravos'. It fades away as it is used up unless it is reconnected via memory gathering like Sir Stuart.

That makes the soul what in this equation? Change/growth? soul+memory=life?

I was thinking about her plan in Dead Beat, not Ghost Story. But it fits too.
In DB, she whipped up lots of spirits to be consumed. She even went to the trouble to acquire some ancient Native American artefacts to attract the right spirits. I can't imagine she would have gone that way if the energy gained was only temporary.

[jonas]

I was thinking about her plan in Dead Beat, not Ghost Story. But it fits too.
In DB, she whipped up lots of spirits to be consumed. She even went to the trouble to acquire some ancient Native American artefacts to attract the right spirits. I can't imagine she would have gone that way if the energy gained was only temporary.

Oh, the darkhallow would have instantly killed everyone for miles around and the 'suction' would have slurped up all the ambient energy. Including all those newly dead and parting souls. This is why the more people who died the more potent the hallow would become. The spirit/memory itself are what is fed that energy. So the older spirits would have a deeper impression. Soul and spirit must match in equivalence? idk on that. Now I have questions instead of answers, thank you
Although thinking critically, life is what's needed, not death per say. Just nobody has all that extra life to match extra memory/spirit all on their own. River shoulders, maybe?

[groinkick]

How to take a wizards power for yourself.  You must consume it of course...