Author Topic: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?  (Read 14538 times)

Offline Tami Seven

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7737
    • View Profile
Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« on: June 23, 2017, 05:13:30 AM »
If there was a way to do it you'd think that the White Council would use it often to disarm dangerous magic users.
War Cry -
"Thomas doesn't fight back, not even for an instant. In the end, it's not common sense that pulls me back from the brink, or even fear of being devoured by the Shoggoth....It's the look of unshakeable trust in my Brother's eyes, even as my hands tighten around his throat."

Offline groinkick

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7556
  • Strike first. Strike Hard. No Mercy! - Cobra Kai
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 05:49:42 AM »
If there was a way to do it you'd think that the White Council would use it often to disarm dangerous magic users.

Stealing it would probably corrupt the person doing it.  Other than that I don't think so.  Jim mentioned that you can but it's horrible.   
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline ClintACK

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 06:01:28 AM »
Yes.  A wizard's powers can be stolen.

Evidence: In Grave Peril, the Nightmare eats a part of Harry's spirit.  After that, the Nightmare is able to take corporeal form and cast spells -- and Harry's own magic is noticeably weaker.

Permanently?  Less clear.  But Harry was worried that he might never regain his power if he didn't take it back from Kravos by force, which he does.  However, what we learn later about the way a person's soul regenerates over time and with certain life-affirming experiences... it probably wouldn't have been a permanent loss.

Would the White Council do this?

No.  Not a chance.  It feels like dark magic.  It probably corrupts the one who steals the power -- especially if they're taking the power from someone corrupted or dark.  Anyone who is dangerous enough that they'd consider this technique... should just be beheaded.

Offline Tami Seven

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7737
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 10:29:11 AM »
Just thought that rendering a person powerless is far more humane than killing them.
War Cry -
"Thomas doesn't fight back, not even for an instant. In the end, it's not common sense that pulls me back from the brink, or even fear of being devoured by the Shoggoth....It's the look of unshakeable trust in my Brother's eyes, even as my hands tighten around his throat."

Offline RobReece

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 717
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 02:49:52 PM »
Yes.  A wizard's powers can be stolen.

Evidence: In Grave Peril, the Nightmare eats a part of Harry's spirit.  After that, the Nightmare is able to take corporeal form and cast spells -- and Harry's own magic is noticeably weaker.

Permanently?  Less clear.  But Harry was worried that he might never regain his power if he didn't take it back from Kravos by force, which he does.  However, what we learn later about the way a person's soul regenerates over time and with certain life-affirming experiences... it probably wouldn't have been a permanent loss.

Would the White Council do this?

No.  Not a chance. It feels like dark magic.  It probably corrupts the one who steals the power -- especially if they're taking the power from someone corrupted or dark.  Anyone who is dangerous enough that they'd consider this technique... should just be beheaded.

What if the person doing it was in possession of the Blackstaff?

Offline phi1601

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 05:34:53 PM »
Why isn't there a Law against it?

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7964
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 05:55:09 PM »
Why isn't there a Law against it?
It probably counts under unwilling transformation, possibly under the mind powers.

Either way, you're basically ripping a piece out of the guy's soul. That's going to be traumatic to both parties. It might well be more humane to kill them after all.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11720
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 06:24:29 PM »
What if the person doing it was in possession of the Blackstaff?
That'd require the Council at large to admit to the existence of the Blackstaff.  It's a secret.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 06:41:29 PM »
I don't see why not. 

We know that if a Wizard is sacrificed on the Stone Table that their power is taken and given to one of the courts.

How else it would be done (besides the Kavros method), I don't know.  Though I'm pretty sure that no matter how it's done, if it's permanent, it is permanent because it killed them.  I can't really see a scenario where it wouldn't. 
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3813
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 07:07:09 PM »
Just thought that rendering a person powerless is far more humane than killing them.

That's assuming that completely de-powering a rogue practitioner isn't fatal to him or her anyway.

It's not like the people taken by the Fomor are let go again once their abilities have been stolen.

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7964
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 07:10:50 PM »
That's assuming that completely de-powering a rogue practitioner isn't fatal to him or her anyway.

It's not like the people taken by the Fomor are let go again once their abilities have been stolen.
Remember that a wizard's power isn't just a tool and a thing they can do. It's not like taking the driver's license away from a drunk, or banning a violent offender from purchasing a weapon.

Magic is part of who and what the wizard is. It's an intrinsic part of them, body, mind and soul. It's their identity, it is synonymous with their self.

Look at the first season of The Legend of Korra. Look at the people who had their bending taken away. That's the sort of thing we're talking about here.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline groinkick

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7556
  • Strike first. Strike Hard. No Mercy! - Cobra Kai
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 08:10:04 PM »
That'd require the Council at large to admit to the existence of the Blackstaff.  It's a secret.

If so it's a secret that anyone with any kind of importance knows.  Kincaid knew it.  The Red Court knew.  I imagine the Mothers know.  The only ones who don't are probably just the lowly uniformed.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Smaug with OCD

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 09:13:56 PM »
I could have sworn I read a WoJ about this very thing in regards to the Fomor a while back, but for the life of me, I can't find it.

As to why it isn't one of the Laws: "Hey, guys, I've got an Idea! Let's tell ALL OF OUR ENEMIES that they can take away our magic! That'll end well...(Sorry, was in kind of a sarcastic mood...)
Cookies are awesome. Join the Dark Side.

Offline peregrine

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 8736
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 09:23:33 PM »
As others have said, I would expect it to be under the aegis of the other Laws, which prohibits them from doing so.

Also, if it is possible we don't know how they would do it.  It may be very difficult compared to killing someone.  Possibly prohibitively so.

Offline groinkick

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7556
  • Strike first. Strike Hard. No Mercy! - Cobra Kai
    • View Profile
Re: Can a Wizard's Powers be Stolen or Taken permanently?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 10:22:58 PM »
My guess is it would fall under necromancy.  The only time we have seen it done is when Harry's magic was stolen, and when he took it back.  So to actually take a wizards magic would probably require someone to leave their own body, consume the magic, and return to their body.  Harry didn't use necromancy but he didn't go after a person either, just a spirit.  To go after a person might require going further into the realm of death which can only happen if necromancy is involved I think.  At least that's how I think it could happen.

If it is possible for one wizard to do it to another wizard it would have to be pretty risk, and dark magic.  If it was easy to do someone like Kemmler would have just targeted wizards to consume their magic.  He would grow greatly in strength, and remove threats to himself all at the same time.  Cowl for example could just target all members of the Senior Council...  It hasn't happened though.  So either not possible for a mortal wizard to do, or highly risky stuff.

The risk would probably be my idea of leaving ones body...  While the spirit is out of the body it is probably at great risk of either being contained, resulting in permanent death, or while outside of the body, the body is defenseless, and open to attack. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 10:28:31 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.