Author Topic: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]  (Read 30897 times)

Offline Elegast

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Plz stop discussions as asked by Knnn in the OP.
My "Maeve came to Splattercon!!! disguised as a vampire" theory : Maeve did it

All the theories on the Dresden Files

Offline peregrine

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Yeah, but Nic's a wiseass. And between him and Anduriel, he knows enough to know how far to push it. I think it's something like, "Look at all the power he brings to the table, why WOULDN'T I want him to assault a god? It's what he DOES." And the fact that she owes him will just sit there like a gun on the table.

The better question in my mind is, WHY does Mab feel the need to clean all her slates? I think we'll find out that HER motivation is more the point for down the road. As in, Mab knows something BIG BIG BIG is coming and she wants to consolidate all the power she can by paying off her debts, which represent holds on her power.
But that begs the question of "does Mab feel the need to clean all her slates?"  Mab owing Nic may be a gun on the table, but Mab doesn't actually worry about guns, as we have seen.  She can ignore it at will, if she wants.

Offline KevinSig

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This critter has to be in Skin Games ...

Well, Cerberus did show in Daedalus's labyrinth, in the God of War games.  Maybe Butcher will take a nod from he GOW games?  Kinda would be disappointed if he doesn't give some sort of nod to the games, even just as a joke.

Offline panorama

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Re: Skin Games Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2013, 06:03:09 AM »
Thanks for setting this up again, knnn!  As the bearer of the top spot in the Cold Days Predict-A-Thon (the badge for which I proudly display as my avatar), I'm here to defend my title.  So here we go: 

1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

According to Greek mythology, the Labyrinth was commissioned by King Minos of Crete and built by Daedalus, to imprison the Minotaur.  The fact that it is Hades that holds the Labyrinth and its contents throws a twist into the original myth.  I'd say, Nicodemus is after

A)  The Minotaur or an artifact of power that represents the Minotaur (e.g. a horned, bull-shaped helmet) that has a lot of destructive potential. 

or

B)  The Greek goddess Persephone, who was kidnapped by Hades in the original myths.  Because Persephone ate the pomegranate seeds of the underworld, she must remain in the underworld for an appointed time.  Since, Persephone is a goddess of vegetation and growth, having her out of the underworld in violation of her appointed time might wreak havoc on the finely balanced power of the Summer and Winter Fae Courts.  So, Mab has a vested interest in Nicodemus' not being successful in freeing Persephone from her prison. 

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?


Nicodemus wants Harry involved.  There is one thing that Harry has that makes him really, really unique (for a non-angel) -- Soulfire.  No angel is going to help Nicodemus, but he can get Soulfire at his disposal by calling in his marker with Mab.  Jim once described Soulfire and Hellfire being akin to matter and antimatter.  I think Nicodemus is going to use the Hellfire that his crew has, and combine it to Harry's Soulfire to create a metaphysical stick of dynamite to "blow the doors off the vault".  After all, Harry was able to use Soulfire to break free from Mother Winter's chains in Cold Days.  Anduriel/Nicodemus probably know better than Harry what "the fires of creation" are capable of and so Harry is absolutely key (pun intended) to the heist. 

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry? 


A)  Dierdre will be Nicodemus' right hand.
B)  Nagloshii has already been mentioned by Jim as being a part of the crew. 
C)  They will need a guide to navigate through the Labyrinth.  Ariadne was the the one in the myths who guided Theseus with regard to the Labyrinth, so I would say Ariadne or her ghost or somebody related to Ariadne or Theseus.  Either that or Icarus, Daedalus' son (or his ghost). 
D)  If it is to be a ghost guide, then they'll need a necromancer of some sort. 
E)  They'll need somebody/something who can help to make a getaway…Pegasus or a Centaur?
F)  Assorted muscle

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

Without a doubt, Kincaid will be his +1.  This isn't Harry doing something altruistic, it's him helping a hateful enemy do something equally unpleasant.  Whenever the Denarians are involved, people die or are horribly injured/traumatized.  He won't want to bring his friends or family into this.  He'll want to bring somebody who

A) keeps their word and can be trusted 
B) with whom he doesn't have a personal relationship
C) will be motivated to help him, if for no other reason than to get back at Nicodemus -- so he'll bring Kincaid.

Also, Bob will be consulted on at the very least to provide knowledge and guidance. 

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

We also already know that Michael is coming off the bench, so he'll "interfere" and Sanya will most likely be involved because the Knights of the Cross are in place to counter the Denarians.  Murphy will not be involved because she is not a Knight of the Cross.  She is just in possession of the Swords, which is an important distinction.   

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

See point 1B.  If it is Persephone in the Vault and she is the goddess of vegetation and growth, then having her out of the prison/vault against her appointed time will wreak havoc on the balance between the Summer and Winter Courts.  So, Mab has a vested interest in ensuring that Nicodemus is not successful. 

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

The parasite is causing the headaches.  The parasite is an entity that can be reasoned with (since Mab and Demonreach worked with it to keep Harry alive in Ghost Story) and has control over parts of Harry's body.  So, it's almost a given that the parasite is related to the Lash entity or some derivative thereof.  Since Mab is a creature of her word and she said that if Harry fulfilled his mission that she would take care of the parasite for him, I'd say Mab will deal with the parasite as promised.     

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

Harry won't have the juice to take out Nicodemus directly, but if their target is Hades, I'd say that Harry will bring Hades into the mix and do everything he can to get Hades into position to take back what was stolen. 

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

A)  Mordred is the man with the British accent that is imprisoned in the Crystal Caverns on Demonreach.  Merlin imprisoned him there as fitting and long-lasting punishment for betraying Arthur.
B)  If it is NOT the Minotaur or a Minotaur-related artifact of power that is in the Vault, then it will be the Minotaur that will be helping to guard the Vault/Labyrinth.
C)  At least one of the Swords will find a new owner in Skin Game (this could include Sanya's sword)

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

It's been two books (and some short stories) since Harry's death at the end of Changes and we haven't heard a single mention of Eb.  Eb will make an appearance or mention in Skin Game, possibly as the cavalry that Harry will undoubtedly need with the den of vipers that he's found himself surrounded with. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 06:12:03 AM by panorama »

Offline astrogat

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Re: Skin Games Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2013, 03:56:09 PM »
I should really just copy panorama, and change one little thing. Maybe I get lucky and win! But really, here are my guesses:

1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

The labyrinth was made to trap a creature. So I would guess it's someone, rather than something (well, those two might overlap somewhat). So well, someone that can kill a lot of people.  The minotaur might be to obvious. I see no use for persephone.

But since I have no guess about who that could be, I might just have to say Pandoras box. Which also strikes me as a likely target.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

It's Nic. He always has plans. I don't think there is one single reason for wanting Harry. He wants to kill him, certainly (or maybe just recruit him?). I would guess he also wants Harry for the fact that he has Soulfire, and maybe because of some friends of his.

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry? 

Diedre of course. Jim has mentioned Nagloshii, and since he likes to torture Harry, it's probably shagnasty. Since it's the realm of the dead, I think Mort is an option. Binder (the guy who summoned things) might also be an useful addition to the team. And a few more thugs that die on the way. I also think the nagloshii dies. Or he is simply left in the labyrinth. 


4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

I've been toying with the idea of Carlos as the +1. But I think the most likely candidate is Thomas. Or Kincaid. Damn, I'm bad at this. I'm going with Kincaid as the +1, simply because I think that would make for the coolest book. A bad-ass-off between Kincaid and Nic would be quite enjoyable.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Sayna for sure. Micheal will come off the bench (per Jim), so I think he will wield a sword. Daniel, I think will try it (and fail somehow). Micheal will save him.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

It's Mab. Once again one reason doesn't cut it. Nic has been breaking the accords for to long. He needs to be punished. And Mab probably don't want doomsday, so thwarting him is probably good. And she will probably twist it so that Hades owns up owning her a favor. And Harry. And mostly everyone else. Mab is going to be the big winner in this book.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

Lash is involved. She is at least in Harry's head. She is wounded and pulling power from Harry to heal (she can't help it). Molly will pull it out and put it somewhere else. Bob will try to seduce her/it.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

Harry will trap the Nagloshii in the Labyrinth. Nic will try destroy the world. Harry will try to thwart him by bringing in the swords and Murphy. Nic will smile and spring the trap. Molly will come in and save the day. Micheal, Harry and Molly will talk. It won't go well for Harry.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

We will get a new knight.
More to come.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

Harry will imprison something for the first time. Kincaid and Nic will try to intimidate each over.

Offline Gautsu

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Re: Skin Games Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2013, 09:03:38 PM »
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

George R.R. Martins's drafts for the rest of ASOIAF and his short stories. Why, because he wants to read Bombshells

Offline Phariah

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Re: Skin Games Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »
I am intrigued by the League of Evil. JB says we would know some because they have appeared in the books already. I say Mavra, one of the Goblins from the encounter in Changes, Red Cap, and Talos. those are the ones I think so far. not majorly evil but might show..  Binder, Churchmouse,
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Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Skin Games Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2013, 12:31:41 AM »
I am intrigued by the League of Evil. JB says we would know some because they have appeared in the books already. I say Mavra, one of the Goblins from the encounter in Changes, Red Cap, and Talos. those are the ones I think so far. not majorly evil but might show..  Binder, Churchmouse,

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Offline SAZ

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Re: Skin Games Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2013, 01:30:15 AM »
I wonder if we will get to meet a rakshasa? Or perhaps JB will just keep the rakshasa thing as something that is outside of Harry’s event horizon.
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Offline Gautsu

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Re: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2013, 12:41:12 AM »
I think Nic is going to be interested in finding out how Harry was able to resist Lash's influence as a secondary objective. Also who/how many/if any people he has told about the noose being a way to kill him. And I suspect that in addition one of his goals will be to show Harry even further that they might possibly have even more reasons to work together in the future, if he survives this book. If Demonreach abuts Tarterus as has been hypothesized I wonder if we will see any Cristos (he's Greek, possibly evil, and possibly Peabody's 2nd on DR in TC). I would be thrilled to see some kind of 300 quote ("Denarians, tonight we dine in hell! Madness, this..is..Dresden!"). Catching my wife watching Ghostbusters the other day I could see Harry to Cerberus "Nice doggy, good pooch, maybe I have a milk bone..."

Offline Paladino

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Re: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2013, 12:33:14 PM »
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

Considering Jim answers about how Hades made the labirinth his personal bank, I think it's more likely that Nic is going after an object. If Nic is persuing his regular goals, I'd say Pandora's Box or another greek relic that cause chaos, maybe something from Pan..

But considering the end of SmF, and how all the coins Thorned Narnshiel got from Harry disapeard, they may be under Tessa possescion who migth be BC, or under a third party. Anyway it could be that either a BC Tessa, or a third party has locked all those coins in Hade's safe, to break havoc on Nic's plans. And Nic want his friends back. This plot would also be one of the reasons Michael will get out of the bench..


2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

I think Nic wants Harry for something especific, either cause he was alredy dead once, and that migth help him pass Hades security, or by the Starborn angle..

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

Shagnasty, has alredy been mentioned by Jim, I see Harry having a lot of trouble with him, and in the end either Shagnasty buying it/getting locked under DR, or Harry managing to have Shaggy left behind to deal with Hades.

The last surviving church mouse.. I see her being a problem for Harry to deal, he will try to save her/keep her safe, all along not understanding what are her real motivations being there (revenge/forced/greed), until the very end.. I think she migth get killed and be another guilt trip for Harry..

Considering Hades is the lord of the dead I bet we will see some necromancer or at least an ectomancer, I think Kumori is a good possibility. Harry will want to convert her but it wont work. Plus she will probally have a personal objective, maybe an object from the vault to help on her stop death research.

Deirdre will also be present and will be always teasing Harry and, when all the backstabing start she will try to get a chop of Harry personally due to SmF.


5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Murphy has alredy been confirmed as Harry sidekick, So there is a high chance we will see Fidelachius, even if she is there mainly to keep an eye on Harry back.
We know Michael is comming out of the bench, most likely it has to do with Molly, but I wont be surprised if he picks Amorachius for one last time.
I see no reason why Sanya should show up, but all three swords showed up on every Denarian book.. I mean GP apart, all three swords have always shown together (DM, SmF, Changes)..

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

I personally think she dislikes competition. I mean whats the point of she keeping the Outergates safe and one idiot causes the apocalypse on her world? That apart, I think she holds a grudge due to Nicodemus abusing her accords on SmF.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

I'm wanting it to be Lash comming back, been born like Athena, and since Harry is not Zeus she springing out of his head would kill him.... In the end of the book Molly will fix Harry, by extracting this new Lash from his head, where she will either reside on the new "skull" Harry made for Bob (or at least promised to make) or will enter Amanda Beckit, that would be interesting cause since Harry called compared persephone, and Hades will be one of the theme of the book.

I dont think the parasite is Nemesis related, since it made a deal to keep Harry alive during GS, I dont see how keeping a starborn alive would be usefull for Nemesis...

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

I think someone in the nic's eleven group will have made a deal with a thirty party, either BC, Nemesis agent or with Hades themselves. I think it would be a cool twist if the church mouse made a deal with Hades to get revenge on Nic or even to see/bring back the dead church mouses...

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

Pass.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 
[/quote]

I think something will happen that will either totally break the Murphy/Harry ship or will make them get in a relationship. I'd be sad but not surpride if Murphy buys it in this book, especially considering Jim quote that some knigths dont last longer than a day..

I think Harry reunion with Maggy and Mouse will be short, not even sure if Harry will be revealed as her father.

I think Harry will finally start accepting a little of Molly interest on him, instead of instantly denying the idea..
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 12:42:24 PM by Paladino »

Offline doh573

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Re: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2013, 01:15:13 AM »
Ok lets do this!  >:(

Harry is going to take Murphy as his plus one. And he's going to make a joke about how she said she'd follow him to Hell and back and now she'll have the chance.

They're going to cross the river styx to get into Hades and Harry is going to piss off Charon (the ferryman)

Half way through the book the boss fight is going to be Cerberus. After Harry gets past him he's going to make a joke about how that never would have happened to Mouse.

They're going to some variation of Pans labyrinth and they're going to be stealing Pandoras box.

For my final wild shot in the dark guess, one of two things are going to happen. Harry is going to try and see Maggie but Michael not understanding that Harry was forced to work with and eventually betray the Nickleheads will refuse to allow him to see her as it would put her in danger.

Or Michael will try and fight Harry on the grounds that back (I think in White Night) when Harry first told Michael he had picked up the coin Michael made Harry a promise, that if Harry ever fell, ever became a monster he would be there to end him. And Michael seems like the kind of person who takes that seriously. I think if he see's Harry working with the Nickleheads he's going to assume Harry has picked up the coin and become one of them. He's trying to steal something that could be used to kill people and Michael is going to try and live up to his promise and bring Harry down as he said he wanted him to.

Bonus wild guess: In the Greek myth Orpheus loses his loved one and goes into Hades to get her back. Hades agrees he can have her back on the condition that he never look back to see if she is following him until he reach the surface. At the very end he caves and looks back and she's lost because of it. The same thing is going to happen to Harry and Murphy. The only difference is Harry won't look back and when they get to the surface she'll be there and he'll say something corny about how he trusted her and knew that she'd be there and I will get all chocked up and blame emo onions.

Guess I know will be accurate: I'm going to enjoy this book
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Offline Carl

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Re: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2013, 09:32:34 PM »
1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

Nearly impossible to guess. It could be an old Greek myth sufferance like Persephone with him seeking to get someone back, (hell maybes he's seeking to control Marcone by putting a fallen into his Persephone, but he needs to wipe out her real soul to do it), or maybe he's going after some old greek artefact, but without at least some clue it's just wild guessing.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

Depends if he asked for Harry or if Harry was the help she decided to provide, he might have been trying to get Slyde freed to come help, we don;t know if Nic knows Harry's the Knight as far as i can remember. If he does he's after Soul Fire IMO. It's the one thing Harry brings that he couldn't get in some combination from others. Unless of course he ants something one of Harry's friends will bring instead.

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

I suspect most will be Deanerian's. As for others like Harry, that's impossible to say, there's not many options so i'm betting on a few new guys/girls.

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?  9/10/13 an interview was published that answers the first half of this question.  (edit:  Sort of)  Those that guessed what he said in that interview (at least partially) have been logged by the curators, but this will probably go down as some kind of extra credit or something, so keep Predictin!  (edit:  And things might not be binary simple...)-Serack

I'm betting Molly's going to get in, but since Mab's been keeping them apart and since Harry is apparently going to let slip to her parent's that she's the new Lady she might show up pissed and wanting to smite him rather than the other way around. Sanya is a high probability too. I don;t think the carpenter's will et involved but since Harry's involved and is the winter knight i'd bet hard on Fix and maybe even Sarrisa showing up. The latter probably in response to Molly.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Sanya is the only current one and i'd bet on him.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

It's probably simple thwarting as the main goal. I don't doubt she hopes for getting something more out of it, but Harry's unlikely to freely give her whatever "it" is. Of course Harry keeping it may be the plan. She say's she wants him to be able to oppose her if she goes bad, but even if he had Molly and Sarrisa and the Summer knight backing him up he's snowball's chance in hell of doing it ATM.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

It all started after Cowl's attack so there's definitely an outsider involved and we know Lash is still around, so unless Cowl turns up and she jumped into his head i'd say's she's in there somewhere too. Molly is certain to get rid of it but i see a few ways it could go depending on how thoroughly Lash has actually changed and if she's there. Assuming she is a few idea's crop up. First she could become an advisor in Harry's head again. Not a huge probability, but possible. Second she could migrate to Molly, we saw how an outsider influence could break the usual rules with Mantles, Lash might be able to do the same for Molly. It's also possible she might end up in someone, possibly someone who's down and ain't coming back. That would presumably make her Mortal in effect.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

First one i'm really stumped on.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

1. If Lash get's her own Body i think she will be the new KotC.

2. I think Fix will die and Murphy will become the new Summer Knight. Harry doesn't really need a blast and kill approach to make non-harmful to the mortal realm, he just needs someone to remind him when the mantle is making him act bad and someone to help him out of Mab's manications. He's already put Murphy up for the later himself by bringing her as his +1.

3. I don;t know if it will happen but i'm hoping for a really big reunion scene with the carpenter, molly, and harry at the end where Charity and Michael welcome Molly home and hug her and tell her she'll always be there daughter no matter what happens to her, that they think no less of her just because she's the new winter lady, even if they do worry about her. ou no what every parent worth calling a parent would do.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

Pass.
Possibly Ivy and Molly's biggest fan, i'm too chivalrous and kind for my own damm good. A bit like a certain Wizard we all know :).

Molly should get this shirt.

Offline tpurcell

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Re: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2013, 08:55:28 PM »
1.   When addressing what Nic is trying to get a hold of, we must think about what Hades has in his possession. As a god of wealth, it’s possible that Hades has any amount of coinage. Perhaps he has a collection of the Blackened Denarius and Nic wants to recover them; however, I feel that is unlikely. I think it is important to note that Jim has established that mantels or masks can be taken up or cast off and in some cases changed. When I think along this line of reasoning, I feel it is likely that Hades is a mask or mantel that can be taken up by other major league entities of the Nevernever. Let’s consider that Kringel, Odin, and Donar Vadderung are the same entity. I think it’s possible that Hades may be a mask of the Erlking (or vice versa). I think this because the myths connected to Hades connect him to being associated to the spirits of the dead and the change of the seasons as his possession of Persephone indirectly causes the passage of the seasons. Also the binding contract of Persephone’s release and return are based on her eating food he gave her. All of it strikes me as very “Sidhe-like” and in similar spheres of influence to the Erlking.  Persephone herself may be a mask or mantel of one of the Summer Queens. From this perspective, I think it likely that the item Nic wants to steal is likely a symbol of power connected to Summer/Seelie Court.

2.   My idea as to Nic’s plan for using Harry is based on the guess I put forth above that Hades is connected to the Summer Court in some manner. If I’m right, and Hades is somehow connected to Summer then Harry will be VERY useful as his mantel of Winter Power will be very effective in assaulting Summer powers.  Nic will not admit to needing any of Harry’s powers as Nic would never tip his hand in that manner. If Nic allowed Harry to know which of Harry’s Powers he needed then he’d be handing Harry a bargaining chip to withhold. Nic is scheming to have Harry bring his powers of Winter to bear and his deductive reasoning—it’s a Labyrinth after all.

3.   Nic’s recruits will be:
Deirdre: (They’ll get along like gas and sparks, and Harry will attempt to get her destroyed)
Mavra –Only because it’s been awhile since we’ve seen her: (Harry will try to destroy it)
Anna Valmont, and/or Elaine Mallory, and/or an Unnamed New Character: (Harry will find himself getting along with Anna or Elaine or the Newbie and will attempt to save him/but more likely her from their association with Nic, perhaps Anna/Elaine/Newbie is now a Denarian that can be redeemed. Ultimately Anna/Elaine/Newbie puts Harry in an even worse position and by Harry’s choices to attempt to try and save them. Sanya or a New Knight is killed due to this complication causing Harry to remain custodian of two or all three swords)

4.   Obviously Murphy is going to come along. What else does she have to do? She's also the person Harry trusts the most. However; whenever the Denarians show up, so does Johnny Marcone. It’s my bet that Harry additionally turns to Johnny Marcone to help him in some way. The objective of the mission is to pull a heist with untrustworthy elements; and as such Johnny Marcone is best suited to help Harry. Marcone also seems intimately connected to the NAMES: Demeter (Helen Beckitt) & Persephone (Amanda Beckitt – Side note: Amanda means: deserving or worthy of great love), and seems to be real world metaphorical association of Hades. Hades wasn’t evil, but was thought of negatively due to his status as lord of the Underworld, and I think the same could be said about Johnny Marcone. Who knows, it’s possible that Johnny Marcone may become an emissary of Hades in one manner or another  (but that’s a longshot).

5.   Sanya, Murphy and at least one of the Carpenter Family, most likely Michael; but possibly Molly and Daniel too. Murphy is the sub-custodian of the Swords and as such she must be on the role call if The Swords come into action. I have a bad feeling and for some reason don’t think Daniel Carpenter would survive taking up a sword—so, I’m guessing it will be more sad days for the Carpenter family if he tries to take up a sword (I hope I'm wrong). Basically Daniel “wants” to be a Knight instead of being called to be a Knight.  The Swords are there to redeem the Denarians, and as such whoever is serving as a Knight will try to redeem one and likely put the group in an even more compromised situation resulting in more bad things happening, like a death of a Knight(s).

6.   Mab’s reasons for wanting Nic to come to an unhappy end will be multiple and diverse, but among them I think keeping the balance of Summer and Winter intact will be a primary motivating element.

7.   The Shadow of Lasciel, aka Lash, became a separate element split from the coin in White Night. During the showdown in the depths Lash took a mental bullet for Dresden; HOWEVER, as Lash is connected to Harry’s brain/physiology (resides in his mind) it stands to reason that if Harry can recover from any injury over time that so could his brain and by extension Lash as well. When bones heal they ache, when cuts heal they itch, when a brain heals perhaps it causes migraine headaches. Lash once recovered will want out of Harry’s head as being attached to Harry is not a good way to stay alive as Harry always puts himself in harm’s way. I’m reminded strongly of Athena’s birth from Zeus. Athena leaped fully armored from Zeus’s skull when Hephaestus, a godly craftsman opened his skull, to alleviate the headaches. I think it’s likely that in the year Harry has been marooned on Demonreach that he followed through on building a new vessel for Bob. Harry swore on his power to do so, so I think Harry would have done it.  Considering that Bob is in Chicago and Harry is on the island, it is possible (and even likely) that even though the new vessel is complete, that Bob hasn’t taken up residence yet. So at the end, I think Molly will assist opening Harry’s skull (à la Hephaestus) and the newborn Lash spirit will be given an element of air and spirit (Winter associated to the Air Element) and will take up residence in the new vessel. Lash will become Harry’s new or additional lab assistant. One other option is that Lash will be extracted by Molly and Harry will have Demonreach imprison her, thus allowing her to continue to interact with Harry from “behind bars”.  Either way Lash becomes external to Harry and he’ll still be able to interact with her and seek her advice in future books.

8.   Final Twist: an inmate from Demonreach will be able to help Harry get out of what looks like certain doom for him and his crew, in return for freedom. Thus Harry will release a potentially REAL BAD GUY (Probably somebody with an British accent).

9.   WAG 1: Amanda Beckitt's cure will be identified or her safety or well-being will be brought in as a sub-plot point. Every Denarian book, the sub-plot of Amanda Beckitt's shooting get's further defined. I expect that in book 20 Amanda Beckitt will actually be cured by Harry which will firmly seal Johnny Marcone as Harry's ally for the big Apocalyptic Trilogy.
WAG 2: Murphy will either get a “power up” or will get hurt, and we’ll get a sign foreshadowing her eventual death. Murphy is getting old to be operating on the adventure level that Harry is on. She’s awesome, but she’s still just a Vanilla Mortal and is closing in on age 45. By association, Randy Couture one of the all-time greats of MMA made his final title run at age 46 and needed to hang up his gloves after that. Unless Murphy gets a permanent “power-up” she’s going to be closing in on the time when she starts losing fights, and losing fights at the weight-class Harry is in will mean something pretty grim.
WAG 3: Molly and Harry start to become more related as peers and will signify the start of an expanded affection outside Master/Apprentice that will continue to grow. Harry will need to have loving sex with Molly sometime soon. I say this because Harry will need the touch of True Love prior to, or in response to his next throw down with the White Court, otherwise the White Court will be able to affect him. Most likely, there will be a set up for a future story that allows Harry and Molly to be falling in true love and that before Harry and Molly consummate their bond of love, that Harry will actually get ensnared by Lara or a White Court vamp and that at some point Molly will need to break the snare by consummating a True Love connection.

10.   Harry will use his Oak Wizard’s staff as a Thaumaturgical connection to the island of Demonreach as the staff was cut from the oldest oak on the island. That connection will allow him to channel more power or effects that are associated with the island while off the island.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 04:03:34 PM by tpurcell »
"I am just another blind man. I do not get the whole picture of what transpires in all places. I am blind and limited. I would be a fool to think myself wise. And so, not knowing what the universe means, I can only try to be responsible with the knowledge, the strength, and the time given to me..."

Offline Reventon

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Re: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2013, 11:18:34 AM »
Bit late in jumping in on this, but what the hell...

1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

This is such a tough question as there several great possibilities.

I'm going to throw the Seal of Solomon out there for a number of reasons. Chiefly because it confers the power of control, and Nic is all about controlling the circumstances of engagement. Given he is also mostly immune to physical damage (barring running into someone else as savvy as Harry), a relic that acted on a primarily physical scale would be of limited appeal. Also, I'd see Nic as being very, very keen to make sure an item that could potentially bind or control Anduriel in some form got neutralised, but one that allowed him to directly attack hostile Denarians (and possibly help against outsiders) would be something he'd want to get into his possession as soon as possible.

The other guesses seem awesome, though. Wouldn't be surprised if I'm dead wrong.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

Nic always has a plan, and he rarely fulfils only one objective with a single stroke. Reasons for Dresden:
-Soulfire: First and foremost. Panorama's theories are good.
-The Warden: He can access Demonreach. I don't know how this is crucial yet, but it will be. It's possible the Island's Way opens up straight to Tartarus given what Harry has imprisoned down there.
-Was Dead: Maybe this will help confuse Cerberus. And that's a HUGE maybe. Prolly not. But at least he won't brown his pants about being in the realm of the dead like a typical wizard
-Starborn: Kumori will likely be on the crew. If you were planning on having a Necromancer on your team with links to a big time mage who's worked with outsiders, having a Starborn there as a balancing factor would be a really great threat. Particularly if said Starborn had their last big plan go kablowie.


3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

-Anna Valmont. Nicodemus will have serious leverage on her to bring her in, possibly with her now bearing a coin. More likely, I think it will be blackmail, intimidation and the possibility of a payoff. 
-Shagnasty. This one isn't really a guess anymore.
-Kumori: Many have said it, and it makes perfect sense. She can commune with the dead, Harry respects/is creeped out by her and she's shady.
-Binder: Cheap muscle in bulk
-Deirdre: Duh
-Gard or Hendricks: One of them grabbed Namshiel's coin. If the target was the Seal of Solomon, they'd have a great way of binding a demon (theoretically). I'm betting Gard will be in, but who knows.
-Mavra: To piss Harry off. And because she probably could sneak by Cerberus.
-The Redcap: Cheap muscle who hates Harry? Cheap FAE muscle at that? Right up Nic's alley.

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over? 

Kincaid. To summarise:
-Bar Michael, he has the biggest individual Denarian frag headcount of any single character. Based on ONE encounter in the Shedd. This ignores what he may have done in past centuries. To paraphrase Harry in Small Favor, "He's here to help build trust... I can kick you a lot farther with him around."
-Harry wouldn't get all cut up and emo if he dies. Given the choice between Kincaid, Thomas or Murphy, we all know who he'd rather bid Aloha.
-He's totally amoral. If they have to do anything grey or genuinely evil, he won't question it, having given his word, he'll just do it.

Sanya and Murphy will definitely interfere, Michael's "Coming off the bench", Bob will surely put in an appearance and we'll probably see Molly at the end, briefly, when it's time for Harry to be cured. And she'll prolly be damn scary.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Hopefully Murphy will finally freaking take up Fidelacchius. That one's been coming for a while. My gut says Sanya will get the snot kicked outta him, and this will be a trigger point for her. With the only active knight taken out of play, it literally is up to her to put the boots on and kick major ass.

We know Michael's coming off the bench...and as much as I hate the idea, I think he may end up playing a martyr in this book, having one last fight with Amoracchius. I so hope I'm wrong about that.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Mab's reasons are rarely simple and like Nic she's a big fan of achieving multiple goals with one action:
-Stability. What's the point in defending reality if anyone who might chip in to fight during the BAT is taken out of the game or ganked by Nic's machinations? Mab may not care for personal damage sustained by his victims, but the stakes are too high for her to let Nic screw with the mortal or supernatural order on a big scale
-Enforcement. The Unseelie Accords are Mab's Accords. Anyone with the nerve to violate them has delivered her a personal insult. This is on top of the personal insult delivered by Namshiel and the Black Council in attacking Arctis Tor. We can bet that more of Nicodemus' former allies will have been involved in that attack, Tessa and Rosanna being likely suspects. Mab wants Harry to send a message. Given the acid marks on Arctis Tor, Shagnasty may also have been involved. Mab will want Harry to see its nutless carcass maimed.
-Binding. First Lea, then Maeve, now Cat Sith... if Mab could get a hold of an item capable of binding Nemesis, that would help fix some headaches

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

My guess is that the parasite is the residue of Lash's Spirit and an attack by Nemesis. Nemesis infected Lash, as it were, while she was taking a "Psychic Bullet" for Harry at the end of White Night. This would explain the paradox that Nicodemus was entirely unable to command the "shadow" at the end of Small Favor, but how the "Shadow form" shown in Ghost Story knew him so intimately....it's not just Lash/Lasciel anymore and doesn't really define itself that way. Somehow, whether through Lash's actions or through Harry being Starborn, perhaps a bit of both, his mind was insulated from direct infiltration by Nemesis... but the portion of his brain where Lash resided was not. And now it wants out of his skull. If it can't control him, it wants independent existence.

My guess is Molly will have to "remove" this portion of his mind with neuromancy, because while it's separate to him, it's still encapsulated by his mind and insulated by his thoughts.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

Panorama's guess of Harry purposely attracting Hades' ire seems right on the money to me. Otherwise he might have Cerberus snap someone's head off. Maybe both. But he'll be super sneaky and use his environment, for sure.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

We may not find out in Skin Game, but a wild ass guess is that the British Accented Prisoner is either Arthur or Merlin. Arthur was supposedly taken to the Isle of Avalon, where his wounds were to be healed and he would one day return (the Once and Future King). Merlin was supposedly imprisoned by the lady of the lake, trapped in walls of air that appeared like a tower to him.

Arthur, if he ever returned, would be a kick ass wielder of Amoracchius in the BAT. Conversely, Merlin's act of sacrifice might be what holds the prison of demonreach together in perfect multi-temporal/dimensional harmony... because it hasn't lost any power after thousands upon thousands of years. No matter how much juice you can sling around, that's a helluva feat.


10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 

Dresden will most definitely be imprisoning at least one nasty under Demonreach. My bet is on Shagnasty but there's no question that at some point on the island, him and Albert will kick some serious ass.

Molly will be...scary. While there's no question she's better equipped to handle power now than she ever was in the past, she still has self control and impulse issues. Now that she has a ton of power and no real need to show much in the way of contstraint... well. After going through Mab and Lea's school of hard knocks and being a grade A mind bender, no one will want to mess with her.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 11:31:03 AM by Reventon »