Author Topic: Skin Game Predict-a-thon. [All the latest Spoilers permitted and encouraged]  (Read 53805 times)

Offline jb2point0

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1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

I want to guess Ferrovax's gift, because I want to know what was in that GD box. But then I think, why would a "capital D Dragon" rely on someone else to safekeep his belongings? So this is a tentative guess because I don't think we have any good indication toward any other relic.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

In most cons, you need a patsy, I think Harry and guest will be said patsy, and Nic bet on Mab using Harry. The side benefits (White Council Warden Winter Knight Destroyer of the Red Court) may be helpful, but Harry's main purpose is the patsy.

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

I think it will be mostly denarians, but probably a couple other favors called in from Nic, none of them good. Ooo, maybe some demons, like Chauncey.

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

I think Murphy might insist or otherwise inject herself into the situation. Otherwise, maybe Thomas because of Nic having his "spawn" accompany him as was said in the SG teaser.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

Harry at some point may likely be up against Sanya and maybe even Michael, but Michael likely sans-sword. Also, I feel Murphy should be the one to acquire Fidelacchius, either during or as a result of the events of SG. Harry will be forced to lie to Sanya/Michael about his involvement with the entire operation, which will create huge amounts of suspicion or fall out from Sanya/Michael.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Nic has violated the accords previously, which charges Mab with punishing the violator, and Mab always repays her debts ;)

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

It's Lash, and Molly will have to "cut" her out of Harry, like she cut out her friends' addictions in various ways. Lash will then take residence in Bob's old or new vessel.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

I think Harry being the patsy will be the big twist. I think Harry's also being worked over by Mab, and this heist will alienate him from most everyone except maybe Molly.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

Murphy has Lascielle's coin, and will she will be used to screw over Harry. This will lead to Murphy being confronted by Sanya, Michael, and/or Harry, having her coin removed, and her becoming a KotC of the sword of faith.

Mouse will Fu Dog the sh't out of Cerberus

Anduriel was the shadow that killed Harry

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 

Lea will get screen time after a full book of being a no-show.

We'll find out which angel killed Harry

Harry will tell Michael about Molly, and Michael will get The Warrior-style irrationally angry about it. Harry's gonna be really sore after.

We will find out something about Maggie Sr. from Nic

We will find out a tiny bit more about Malcolm

Harry will receive his backpay from the White Council
Sharing Jim Butcher's initials since 1987.

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Offline peregrine

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No angel killed Harry.  Unless you mean the shadow.

Offline jb2point0

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No angel killed Harry.  Unless you mean the shadow.

The shadow was one of the fallen, which are all angels.
Sharing Jim Butcher's initials since 1987.

HHWBeh
HHWBef
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Offline Gigglestomp

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1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

   TBD - I will definitely pick one as I give it more thought. Right now I am leaning towards a being or soul, rather than an actual object. Whatever it is, he plans on creating a long-term feeling of fear and despair with it (That’s his m.o.). It’s one step closer to the apocalypse in his mind.
   Possible Beings: Persephone
   Possible Objects: Pandora’s Box of Badness

   I’m also pretty sure that Nic is going to go as long as possible without telling Harry what the object is. It is going to make it much easier to keep him wondering and screw him later. It’s going to be one of Harry’s major tasks to “guess” what the object is and develop plans to double cross Nic.

2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?


Nic needs Harry because Harry has been dead and returned. They are going to the realm of the dead. He is going to need Harry to slip by one of Hades’ security measures. I believe I know which of those it is too… Garm/Cerberus.  I do not want to ruin my extra credit  (#9) by fully elaborating on Garm/Cerberus here. But the dog was given to Hades to guard the entrance to the underworld: to keep live people out and dead people in. Harry was dead before and returned. The dog will want him back. He will be able to cross where most living beings can not.
Nic is probably scheming for Harry to use Soul Fire at some point to create something (Still trying to decide what this something might be).

3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

Nic recruits a whole bunch of baddies from bad town to do baddery. But I think that Harry will get a few suprises thrown in there he did not expect to see.
1)   The Last Churchmouse, Anna Valmont. There is WOJ out there that she may be involved, but I don’t see Harry recruiting her. So I think Nic recruits her, and she is going to be a big surprise for Harry. I don’t think Nic would bring along a vanilla mortal, so she has probably been given a coin. She may have impressed him with her previous heists, and he recruited her knowing he would have this job to do later. She will probably be his number 2, which will piss Deirdre off, because heists are second nature to her. She now has the knowledge of a fallen angel to add to her lifetime of instinct and planning. I think she will kind of act as Nic(Ocean)’s Rusty. She will manage the small details, while he does the whole picture.
2)   A Naagloshii. Harry hates these things, so naturally he’s going to have to work with one. Besides being totally evil, they are very capable. Highly resistant to damage, fast, strong, and can wield magic. They can also shapeshift which I imagine will be very helpful in a bank job. It would fill the role of grease man / bag man. Someone who can get places most people would not think to look, and accomplish a task there.
3)   Nic’s daughter Deirdre. He takes her everywhere, we saw her in the preview chapters. She’s good at cutting things and giving Nic nookie.
4)   Kummori or Cowl. I think probably Kummori. They will have an entirely different object they want to get from Hade’s vault. They are tagging along for the ride. Most likely they will offer him their skills in manipulating the dead and spirits, which will be necessary in Hades’ realm.

4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

While his first choice is probably Kincaid, I don’t think Kincaid will agree to back him in a job with the Denarians. He’s going to pull Thomas off the bench and go for muscle over skill.

5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?
Michael is NOT going to be on Harry’s backup list, but ends up getting involved anyway. I think when Harry goes to tell Michael about his daughter, he doesn’t take it well. He gets upset. Then when Harry lets slip about the job he’s going to do, Michael’s clouded judgment gets him to act against Nicodemous, even though he is no longer a knight. I think he calls up Sanya and Murphy, they grab their swords, and go try to stop Nicodemous and Harry. Harry did not tell him it was his job to screw Nic over. In the end Sanya is mortally wounded.

6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

Mab always holds up her end of the bargain, but she also always pays her debts. Some of the Denarians, and definitely Cowl and Kummori, screwed her at different points in time. The Denarians played big wolf to her little pig at Arctis Tor. The necromancers gave Morgana’s Dagger to Lea, which cost her her daughter. I think both will be on this job, and I think she’s setting them up to be screwed BIG. In addition to that, she’s probably just screwing them to be contrary. It’s in her job description to get the best of anyone in bargains.

7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

The headaches have been going on since before Lash, so that’s a bunch of hooey. I’m still not quite sure what is causing the headaches, but it is a creature of some sort. I always thought it might be linked to him being a starborn. They might get worse and worse as the day gets closer and closer. This probably isn’t it though because there are twentyish books before the apocalypse. That is, unless the apocalypse doesn’t have to do with the start of the outsider attack, which could occur sooner than book 20. It will be resolved when Nic or some other baddie rips the earing off his ear or something, and he’s not on Demonreach. This will probably happen right before the final conflict in the book. The consequences will be dealt with in the aftermath.
TBD. Ill return to this.

8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

Willing to bet Mab and Hades were gaming them all from the start to get someone to somewhere at a certain time to make something happen. Ill try to flesh this out more later.

9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

          (WAG 1) The Eldest Foo Dog
We keep meeting the grand-daddy version of each supernatural creature. We have the eldest fetch, eldest gruff, and the eldest malk now.

I'm pretty sure in Skin game we are going to meet the eldest foo dog

Quote
In Norse mythology. Garm (a giant ferocious dog) guards the gate to Hel’s realm, the underworld. In Greek mythology, Cerberus (a giant ferocious dog) is given to Hades to guard the entrance to the underworld: to keep live people out and dead people in. The only difference is that Cerberus has three heads.

So we have a big dog spirit guardian that can interact with both living and non living beings. Sounds like a foo dog to me.

I am thinking he is going to be Hades' door guard, just to get into the realm, not even the vault.

I'm also willing to bet money that this "obstacle" is the reason Nic needed Harry on the mission in the first place. Harry has died and returned. It's possible that Cerberus or Garm might let him past, seeing that he belongs there. It opened more pathways and options for Harry then he is aware of.

Also Hades might not be a man. If you go with Norse Mythology like with Odin, Hades is a female also named Hel. In this case the dog would be Garm instead of Cerberus.

          (WAG 2) Mother Winter Holds The Mantle of Hel, the Norse(like Odin) version of Hades
She rules over the dead, and her vault is guarded by a guardian dog spirit named Garm.

10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 06:46:55 PM by Gigglestomp »

Offline Elegast

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    1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

    Nic wants the spear of destiny. He knows some of the denarians are traitors, he needs a weapon powerful enough to deal with them.

    2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

    Nic wanted Harry.

    Reasons:

    • Soulfire
    • Harry has already been dead
    • Lasciel asked for it
    • he's the only person Nic trust (not working for Nemesis)

    3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

    Lasiel and her host
    Ana Valmont (probably Lasciel's host)
    Binder?
    A skinwalker.

    4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

    Harry will ask Murphy to come.
    Michel will also come into play.

    5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

    Sanya, Murphy and Michel.

    6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

    It won't be said in this book, but MW is Death and Hades is one of her minions. Harry was sent to help him, even if doesn't know it.

    7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?


    Lash is causing the headaches and is coming back. She will take the new home which was initially prepared for Bob.

    8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

    No idea.

    9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

    Bob's new house will be made out of a computer.

    Lash causes the headaches.

    Lash is infected (contaminated by Harry).

    10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

    The destruction of the RC will be depicted on the wall of the WC HQ.[/list]
    « Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:03:13 PM by Elegast »
    My "Maeve came to Splattercon!!! disguised as a vampire" theory : Maeve did it

    All the theories on the Dresden Files

    Offline kokolores

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    1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

    As I recall Hades had a special helm and chariot in his possession so they should appear, but they are far too obvious. So I'm gonna put my money on something else. Either the keys to the doors of tartarus to unleash all kinds of beasties upon the world or some pomegranate seeds he intends to feed to some unsuspecting summer deity.

    Quote
    2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

    I figure Nicodemus wants Harry at his side for several reasons. First, because Nick wants to kill Harry and this will be the perfect opportunity. Secondly, because forcing Harry to work with him will be the most fun Nick has had for years. Thirdly because Hades hates those who manage to cheat death and that fact makes Harry prime bait.

    Quote
    3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

    Anna Valmont is a given I think because of WoJ, but apart from her I expect one of them will be Marcone. Marcone has cast himself in the role of Hades too often for him not to appear.
    Kumori as a necromancer also would make a fitting addition. She will lose some of her mystique and she'll be one of those who will work together with Harry in good faith.
    Finally I kinda expect Mavra to show her maggot riddled head once more. Her sole goal will be to kill Harry once and for all.


    Quote
    4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

    Harry's plus one will be Kincaid. As for who will interfere? Sanya, Fix, Murphy, Ivy, Molly, Sarissa Mort and Butters in some manner or another. I fully expect Harry to leave a trail of breadcrumbs for his allies to follow so he can lay a trap of his own.

    Quote
    5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

    Sanya and the new one which will be a complete surprise. So it won't be Murphy although she might use one of the swords for a bit.

    Quote
    6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

    If you consider that Nicodemus is someone who always plays the deeper game you can imagine that whatever he plans to do will have far reaching consequences for the world. It will probably affect the very balance of the world and Mab does not want that to happen. So her tool Harry is chosen to interfere for her good, the good of the world and his good in that order. Besides she wants Harry as her Knight to get a proper reputation. CD was only in house business so she couldn't show Harry off to the rest of the supernatural crowd. This time Harry will be in the midst of major league players and for him to survive he will show himself as the most dangerous of them all. Thereby enhancing her own rep as his queen.

    Quote
    7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

    The parasite is a combination of Lash and Outsider and it will get resolved by Molly helping it be born without Harry having his skull explode. With the greek setting of the book and it being literally the child of Harry's brain she'll be called Athena.

    Quote
    8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

    Obviously Nicodemus will double-cross Harry. Probably setting him up as the sacrifice who is supposed to get hunted down by Hades and Cerberus. But Harry will be ready for it. He will have set up his own back-up beyond what he was allowed. He'll have left a trail for his usual allies- lead by Sanya and Murphy- to follow and they'll spring a trap of their own on Nicodemus. Naturally Nick will be ready for it because his true plan depended upon one of Harry's allies interfering. In the end Nicodemus will escape only to fall into the true trap he did not see coming.
    Quote

    9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

    1. Nicodemus will get finished off in this book and it will involve a super soaker and the Waters of Lethe.
    2. The new wielder of Fidelacchius will be the nice jar ad kid from SmF.


    Quote
    10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit

    No clue what to write right now. I already put my WAGs in the last question.
    If there's something strange in the your neighborhood, who you gonna call?
    Ghost Harry.
    If there's something weird and it don't look good Who ya gonna call?
    Ghost Harry.
    I ain't afraid of no ghosts I ain't afraid of no ghosts

    Offline Denarian Stormborn

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    1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?

    My bet is one some article of power to use in the BAT. Nic is usually all about chasing the apocalypse but I think he sees things are becoming dire he might need a power up.

    2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

    I think Harry having died and come back will show some of it's significance in this book. Hades will probably be interested in such a person.

    3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

    I'd rather see a mixed bunch than his typical Nicklehead crew. The churchmouse will probably be there, and I think a naagloshi is heavily favored in the general opinion because of the name of the book.

    4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

    I was trying to think which of his usual companions he hasn't had a book with lately. Thomas was featured heavily in the CD, as was Molly and she's probably on the shelf for this one at least until its climactic to reveal her winter lady goodness. Mouse isn't a bad idea but I don't really consider him a Major companion if that makes sense. Murphy hasn't been used for an entire book since, what Changes? And just having a sword with her, even if she doesn't take it up, could be a good threat to keep Nic in check.

    5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

    My dream scenario is that when all looks lost for Harry that Sanya, Murphy, and Daniel Carpenter run in and rain holy death on some fallen/demons with all three swords.

    6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

    I believe she mentions in the reading that Harry is there to make sure whatever Nic is planning doesnt go down. Couldn't really guess as to what or how or why at this point.

    7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

    I believe it's Lash, corrupted by Nemesis (somehow) and Harry will rid himself of it when he finally takes up her coin provided by Nic at the best possible moment. Hell Harry already has the mantle to deal with, some serious anger issues, and a world of guilt on his shoulders. I don't know if you guys watch Breaking Bad but he's getting to be more Heisenberg and Walter White at this point. One more nasty influence in his head doesn't sound like an illogical next step.

    8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

    Nic and Hades were working together to deliver Harry to the underworld where Hades believes he belongs. Of course Nic double crosses Hades and takes what he wants from the vault as well as his original payment. Hades then makes a quick deal with Mab aaaand fireworks.
    9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

    1. Eb is infected as well as the leader of the Black Council.
    2. Justin was working toward the same goals as Maggie and sent HHWB to give Harry his first piece of knowledge about outsider/being a starborn.
    3. Kincaid was a denarian at some point.

    10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

    I got nothing.

    Offline vultur

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    Quote
    1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?
    The remaining stored Denarian coins, given the WoJ where Jim carefully didn't say where they were kept, probably implying it would become important in a future plot.

    Either to boost his faction's power in general, or to help him against the potential "Black Council"/Nemesis Denarians.


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    2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?

    Nic may have wanted help from Winter generally, not specifically Harry, because of Winter's ties to death and thus Hades. Or he may have wanted Harry specifically.

    Either way, given that he's got Harry, he probably wants Harry to use Soulfire, a power he otherwise wouldn't have any way of accessing.

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    3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

    Deirdre, almost certainly. Not Tessa or Namshiel, he doesn't trust them at all at this point. Maybe Rosanna. At least one Denarian we don't know the name of yet, though we may have seen them briefly.

    I agree that the remaining Churchmouse will probably be there... not sure if she will be on Nic's team though -  given their bad experience with the Denarians in DM, I'm not sure how Nic would get her to come along. Maybe he got one of the other Denarians to make the deal in disguise, or just used one she didn't meet in DM?


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    4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?

    Probably Thomas, possibly Murphy (I'm not sure Murphy is the right choice for a theft... but she's gotten a lot harder/darker in the last few books, so...)

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    5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?

    Sanya certainly.

    Michael will appear, but not actually use a Sword.

    Fidelacchius will find a wielder, probably Murphy. Though... given the changes Murphy has gone through, Sanya may die or be badly wounded, and Murphy may pick up Esperacchius instead, Fidelacchius going to ... dunno. Daniel Carpenter doesn't sound right to me.

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    6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?

    Nic's success would make the Denarians stronger, and they've already proved they're willing to flout the Accords, and they're agents of chaos and destruction... with the potential of wrecking the balance of the supernatural world and distracting Winter from the Gates.

    So likely Nic isn't thinking specifically about working against Nemesis in the Denarians, Mab wouldn't object to that I don't think.

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    7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?

    Lash in some form. I like the idea of an "Evil Bob" equivalent Evil Lash, remnants of her evil side cast off when she turned good (saw that theory in Serack's Parasite Theories thread).

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    8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?

    Not sure, I can never predict Jim's twists/surprises... even the ones that other people do figure out (it took me embarrassingly long to learn who Tavi was).

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    9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.

    Mother Winter is Death.


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    10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit.

    Harry will reveal more about Soulfire and how to use it that he picked up between books (maybe even from being dead, CD was in kind of a hurry and he knew to use it against Mother Winter's will then...)

    Offline KevinSig

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    1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?
    He's trying to get his hands on Pandora's box.  He intends to use it to cure Thorned Namy's coin of the Nemesis infection.

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    2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?
    Neither.  Nick has a goal in mind, but no set specific plan.  Nick will hand the entire planing of the heist over to Dresden.

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    3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?

    While I expect that Nick will bring in his own suggestions to the team, but other than Deidre & his tongue tied teammates, I think the heist will be entirely Dresden's plan.

    I do expect that Binder, the Last Churchmouse, Tera West to show.  Felicia Raith & Mr. Childs (the Troubleshooter) might also show.

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    4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?
    I think Harry's initial Plus 1, will be Molly.  It generally won't be well known that Molly is the new Winter Lady, and as such Nick will not be expecting any of her actions.

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    5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?
    I expect that Murphy will get over her hang up regarding the sword & finally take it up full time.  Nothing spectacular, but I don't see anyone else qualifying currently.

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    6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?
    I question the premise of this question.  Obviously, Mab knows how Harry thinks.  Getting him to agree to this operation, pretty much hinges on the notion of betraying Nick.

    I see Mab just manipulating Harry here.  She honestly doesn't care if Nick is betrayed or successful.  She just wants to give Harry as reason to see that the task is completed.

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    7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?
    There has been a few hints already, that the parasite is Lash.  I suspect she allowed herself to be infected by Nemesis during the Outsider attack by Vittrio, so that she could act against her nature.

    She tried to burn herself out, before the infection could take root.  Right now, she's Proven Guilty Lea, level of sanity.

    Endgame, she becomes a spirit of Intellect, like Bob.  Suspected vessel will be a nickel-like coin of some sort.  (Maybe something with an Athena-type head.)  Cured of Nemesis by Pandora's box, perhaps.

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    8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?
    I suspect that the last Churchmouse will end up taking up a Denarian coin, either to outright kill Nick.  Or join up with him, for some unknown reason.  Potentially, the new bearer of Lashiel.


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    9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.
    Can't think of anything WAGish, really.

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    10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.
    Harry will be put in front of the White Council, with a vote to determine if he's allowed to retain membership.  I suspect that the vote will be close, with Ebenezer, the Gatekeeper & Listens to Wind voting for keeping Harry.  The Merlin, Christos & Martha Liberty voting against.  Ancient Mai providing the unexpected tie breaking vote, that keeps Harry in the Council.
    « Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:06:55 AM by KevinSig »

    Offline Dimitri

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    1. We have been told that Nicodemus has a very specific target in mind, ostensibly kept in the Labyrinth of Daedalus.  What is Nic trying to get his hands on and why?
    I suspect a powerful "fallen" related object.

    2. Nicodemus apparently called in a marker from Mab to get Harry on the team.  Does he have a specific plan for using Harry or did Mab twist his request?  Which of Harry's capabilities will he admit to needing, and (given that this is Nicodemus after all), which abilities is he scheming for Harry to use?
    Harry being previously dead will be important, plus Harry is good at hitting people.

    3. Jim has mentioned that the book will be "Ocean's Eleven".  Who else did Nicodemus recruit?  How will they interact with Harry?
    I suspect most will be new superbaddies that Harry's never seen before. Some will instantly hate Harry and vise versa and some will later become allies.

    4. Harry's general method of operation is to call on his friends for help.  In this book, Harry is (initially) allowed one extra backup member on the crew.  Who will it be?  Which of Harry's other allies will "interfere" before the plot is over?
    Butters, but because "Polka will never die!" Harry will be forced to use someone else. His second choice will probably be Will or Thomas. The swords will make an appearance near the middle to end of the book though, and I suspect most of the JL of Chicago will show up near the end for a rescue. Ivy might make a guest appearance as well.

    5. This is a Denarian book, so (unlike the last "end of the world" showdown), the Swords will almost certainly be present.  In fact, there have been various hints...  Which Sword wielders will appear in the next book and how will their interference/help affect the plot?
    Sanya will be there, and I suspect one other sword will come into play.

    6. Mab is apparently against Nicodemus succeeding in this heist.  In the Cold Days, we found that Mab had complex reasons for wanting Harry to kill Maeve.  What are Mab's reasons in this book?  Is it simple thwarting or is there something deeper?
    It'll depend on whatever it is that Nic is after, but I suspect him getting it would be very bad for Mab and she's opposed to it.

    7. At the end of Cold Days, Harry needs to stay on the island to keep his growing headaches at bay.  The start of Skin Games implies that those headaches will need to be resolved by the end of the book.  Who or what is causing those headaches, and how will the whole thing get resolved by the end of the book?
    I don't have a good answer for this one.  :-X
    8.  One of the key components of the "Ocean's Eleven" movie is that there is a final twist/reveal.  Given that we've got Nicodemus, Harry, Mab, and potentially Hades (and who knows who else) all trying to get the better of each other, if there's one thing you can count on it's some sort of last minute quintuple-cross.  What will be the nature of the twist and how will it all fall out?
    Nic will reveal that he's after something completly different that what everyone thought, but Harry will be "sorta" ready for him and he'll pull of weak victory.

    9.  (Extra Credit) There are many WAG ("Wild A$$ Guess") theories on the boards, some crazier than others.  Write up to three WAG theories (or make up your own) you believe are correct that will be confirmed (or at least have evidence in favor of) in Skin Games.
    The thing that Nic is REALLY after is the soul of Magaret LeFay.

    10. (Extra Credit) This is that "free form" question where you can come up with anything else you think will be in this book.  Specific quotes Harry might say (will he actually quote Ocean's Eleven?  The movie will have come out already in Harry's timeline)? Tidbits about the White Council? The fate of Molly? Write down anything you want.  Note that whatever you write must be specifically mentioned or hinted at in Skin Games in order to be worth credit. 
    Harry will meet with several people that have died possibly: Susan, Kim Delaney, Harley MacFinn, Malcolm Dresden, Magaret Lefay.

    Offline finnmckool

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    Number One: I like the Spear of Destiny as the On Top reason for Nic wanting to go down there, and as the "Harry has to go to make sure Nic DOESN'T get it" motivation, both for Harry AND Michael.

    Number 2: Nic's Top Card reason is that Harry has been dead. It's also, "Because you owe me, Mab, do I NEED a reason to bring your demi-god of destruction?" One of his In the Deck reasons is because Harry's been dead, and he can maybe trade him to Hades. His Bottom Card reason is there some sort of Starchild (WFUNK, ya'll!)  role Harry can play that Nic needs to hasten his Apocalypse, and probably strike back at his Nemesis compromised liutenants. Only room for one devil in this Armageddon after all.

    Number Four: I think Harry's call in is going to be someone you don't expect that Harry needs for his "long con" on Nic. Personally, I like him not taking anybody, but actually smuggling in someone like Toot as a slightly literal ace up his sleeve. "What? You said I could bring a date."

    Number Six: Mab hates to be in debt. She hates her creditors more. Also, in her own weird way, Mab is charged with holding things together (Guarding the Outer Gates). Nic's crew is in the business of "Tearing Things Apart." Those interests are colliding, especially on the front of one Harry Dresden, that Mab has some recruiting capital invested in for longer plans. In short, their long term goals are about to become in opposition.

    Number 7: I don't know exactly are causing the headaches, but I guarentee that Mab isn't going to wave a magic wand and make it go away. She never said that the parasite would kill him, she said he would die in three days if he didn't do what she said. The parasite and the headaches will resolve themselves, which Mab knows but won't say, part of why she kept him isolated so she could use it to scare him off the island. HOWEVER, if he hadn't taken the job he'd be dead because Nicodemus would be too powerful to stop, or someone would have hit the island, OR Mab would have sent someone to kill Harry for insubordination. Either way, he would have been dead in three days and it wouldn't be directly related to the Parasite.

    Number 8: I don't know how all the twisting will go down, but I'm betting that Mab's earring isn't just keeping Harry alive (if it even is for the headaches, see above). The earring is gonna be one of his tricks up his sleeve and he'll only catch wise to what Mab gave him right when he needs it.

    Number 10: Hades will offer back Susan or Harry's mom to Harry in some form. It'll end as well for him as for Orpheus. Speaking of, Harry will lose someone/thing right at the VERY MOUTH of Hades, a la Orpheus.
    « Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:13:57 PM by finnmckool »

    Offline peregrine

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    It's also, "Because you owe me, Mab, do I NEED a reason to bring your demi-god of destruction?"
    Yeeeessssss?

    Having a debt owed to you by someone does not mean you get to dictate terms arbitrarily.  We saw something similar when Eldest Gruff outright said that though Summer owed Harry a debt, it wasn't enough to force him to capitulate to Harry in the fight.

    Offline finnmckool

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    Yeah, but Nic's a wiseass. And between him and Anduriel, he knows enough to know how far to push it. I think it's something like, "Look at all the power he brings to the table, why WOULDN'T I want him to assault a god? It's what he DOES." And the fact that she owes him will just sit there like a gun on the table.

    The better question in my mind is, WHY does Mab feel the need to clean all her slates? I think we'll find out that HER motivation is more the point for down the road. As in, Mab knows something BIG BIG BIG is coming and she wants to consolidate all the power she can by paying off her debts, which represent holds on her power.

    Offline vultur

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    The better question in my mind is, WHY does Mab feel the need to clean all her slates? I think we'll find out that HER motivation is more the point for down the road. As in, Mab knows something BIG BIG BIG is coming and she wants to consolidate all the power she can by paying off her debts, which represent holds on her power.

    Or maybe she expects to die soon?

    Which could be yet another reason to kill Maeve in CD, so that she didn't inherit the Queen mantle.

    (I know it's said that Mab couldn't cure Maeve like she did Lea, but surely she could lock her up in ice indefinitely, if she didn't want to kill Maeve?)

    Offline Sue

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    This critter has to be in Skin Games ...
    ALL the Gods should be honored, you never know which one is listening …

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