Author Topic: Water Evocator Question  (Read 4871 times)

Offline Tedronai

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2343
  • Damane
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2012, 11:03:13 PM »
The wearing of pants is an aspect when the wearing of pants sufficiently matters.
In-world truths are aspects when in-world truths sufficiently matter.
Even Chaotic Neutral individuals have to apologize sometimes. But at least we don't have to mean it.
Slough

Offline UmbraLux

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1685
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2012, 12:33:00 AM »
In-world truths are aspects when in-world truths sufficiently matter.
This. 

Anything can be a declaration.  How likely it is / how much it costs is up to the GM & group.
--
“As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it.”  - Albert Einstein

"Rudeness is a weak imitation of strength."  - Eric Hoffer

Offline Dastion

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2012, 04:18:32 AM »
Pretty simple, if he wants to be a 'Water Bender' then give him Channeling (Hydromancer), if you don't want to use Focus items then convert each into a Specialty (equivalent refresh costs for both).  The difference being that wheres with Foci he could go +5 Offensive Power Water, you can't do that with Specialties, you'd need to stagger back and forth between Water Power and Water Control with Specialities (so one at +1, the other at +2, then both +2, then one to +3, etc.)

He wants to use Fists to Evocate? Have him take a Stunt which allows him to replace Conviction or Discipline with Fists (not both).

As for the fight scenario, he would use his Water Attack and hit or miss.  If he hits and does enough damage then the player takes an aspect.  Even if he says "I dodged and hurt my shoulder" (which I don't entirely agree with) it would be a very reasonable to Guess or Declare that water came close enough to him to at least make him DRENCHED.  I'd probably grant a guess which used a Fate Point, and the declaration could just be a contest between the two relevant skills to determine if he managed to avoid the water or not.  Once the aspect is on him, you can tag it and do a maneuver to FREEZE the enemy, getting the bonus.  Of course, he could always just do the maneuver right from the start if he wanted and, if successful, explain it that way.

Anyhow, he can't just say "Even though I missed I get the aspect" he has to play by the rules.  This sounds like a player who is digging a concept without fully understanding the game yet, once he knows exactly how aspects and maneuvers work I expect he'll better know how to apply it.

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »
Pretty simple, if he wants to be a 'Water Bender' then give him Channeling (Hydromancer), if you don't want to use Focus items then convert each into a Specialty (equivalent refresh costs for both).  The difference being that wheres with Foci he could go +5 Offensive Power Water, you can't do that with Specialties, you'd need to stagger back and forth between Water Power and Water Control with Specialities (so one at +1, the other at +2, then both +2, then one to +3, etc.)
Well, no. If you want to have a +3, you need a +2 and a +1 underneath it. There has to be a base supporting the higher specialties.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Llayne

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1954
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2012, 06:27:15 PM »
Freezing the water on somebody who is soaking wet isn't going to freeze them in place. I doubt even most modern clothing would hold enough water to immobilize somebody. Slow them down? Maybe for a little bit, but I doubt it'd do much more than that.

Offline Dastion

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2012, 10:09:30 PM »
Well, no. If you want to have a +3, you need a +2 and a +1 underneath it. There has to be a base supporting the higher specialties.

Yes, but logically once you've finished the pyramid you should be able to step it up while remaining within the rules.  So with a typical 5 Element Evocator you'd only be able to have 2 of each bonus of +1-+5, this severely limits a focused practioner's ability to specialize since they would max at just a +1 and a +2 specialty since they don't have any other elements to add a +3 or another +1 to.  So once this occurs it would be logical that one you've reached this maximum you would be required to upgrade any +1s into +2s in order to support another +3 and so on.

This is a situation that few would fall into and Focused Practioner's would probably would normally a Foci anyhow, but the OP is wanting to avoid Foci so that's the best way I can see it working for him.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 10:23:41 PM by Dastion »

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2012, 10:16:08 PM »
Focused Practitioners max out at a +0 speciality, actually.

Specialities are only for people with Evocation and/or Thaumaturgy.

Offline Dastion

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2012, 10:27:13 PM »
Focused Practitioners max out at a +0 speciality, actually.

Specialities are only for people with Evocation and/or Thaumaturgy.

I know. But the entire point is that he's wanting to avoid Foci since it doesn't fit the concept.  To me, allowing Specializations for his Channeling (and thus the required stair stepping) is a better answer than "Okay you don't need Foci" if he absolutely doesn't want to go that route.

Though personally I'd rather just keep the Foci, there's only so much you can adapt a game to fit a concept and in this case it's probably better to adapt the concept to fit the game.

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2012, 10:34:34 PM »
No, a better option is to use a different Power. Because it's not balanced to let people swap out their foci for specializations. Especially not ones which get to ignore the normal caps.

I once proposed a Power which was like Channelling, but with uncapped specializations. For more or less this exact purpose. It cost 3 Refresh for what you would give for 2 Refresh, and it may have been overpowered.

Offline JDK002

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 355
    • View Profile
Re: Water Evocator Question
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2012, 08:00:41 PM »
You can only bend the character creation rules so far before they break.  As others have said, when trying to adapt a concept from a movie or tv show you'll most likely have to make concessions during the creation to male it fit the game rules.

In a case like this that would mean just biting the bullet at using focus items.  But something to consider, focus items for the most part are just flavoring, as well as the face that foci can be small and inconspicuious.  The character could just use small rings, a bracelet, or an unassuming amulet as foci.  It doesn't have to be a giant wizard staff.  A character I play as uses a pair of brass knuckles inscribed with magic sigils as a foci for example.