Author Topic: Combat Speed  (Read 4159 times)

Offline devonapple

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 05:01:40 PM »
With the Spray attacks and Supplemental Actions already a part of the DFRPG rules, one effectively DOES have the capacity for multiple actions. They just require what may appear to be ridiculous skill penalties.

I've been gambling with the Fists/Guns skills of my enemy NPCs, using Spray attacks on all of the party members (bringing down each individual skill check to only +1 in the process), and they are still doing some damage to the party, and effectively increasing the tension.

So if you want to reflect a character's ability to perform multiple actions, boost the skills which come into play: either the primary attack, or any limiting Supplemental skills like Athletics. And also take Stunts which increase the skill rolls for applicable attacks/maneuvers/etc.

As for spending Refresh: I opt to use Refresh to lower the Time/Duration of a particular supernatural attack (1 Refresh to go from Full Round to Supplemental, or 2 Refresh to make it a Free Action). 

Also, in the RAW, Stunts can be designed to decrease the Time/Duration of applicable noncombat skill rolls: how do folks feel about them making certain combat actions Supplemental or even Free?
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Offline luminos

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 05:30:48 PM »
But outside of the slight different in movement distance none of that has anything to do with the character and Sloth Man could pull of the same trick if his player decided to describe it as such.

Alright, question:  What prevents sloth man also describing his attacks as laser beams coming out of his eyes (assuming he doesn't have such a power, and that the description has the same mechanical effect as something he can actually do in the situation)?  I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical.  It's really important to know how you'd answer this question to address your concerns.
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Offline devonapple

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2011, 05:34:52 PM »
Alright, question:  What prevents sloth man also describing his attacks as laser beams coming out of his eyes (assuming he doesn't have such a power, and that the description has the same mechanical effect as something he can actually do in the situation)?

Because eventually this will happen at the table:

Quote
Kyle: Okay, hang on guys, I'll use my special power to see into the future, and find out where we should head next.
Cartman: Hold on you guys, I actually have another power. I can see into the future too, but better than Kyle. Let me try.
Kyle: God damn it, Cartman, you can't keep making up powers!
Stan: Yeah, dude, that's like the fifth power you've come up with!
Cartman: I am Bullrog, and I have lots and lots of powers.
Kyle: No, [expletive deleted]! From now on you only get to have one power! So what is it?
Cartman: I have the power to have all the powers I want.
Kyle: That doesn't count, [expletive deleted]!
Stan: Yeah, that's it, Cartman, now you don't get to have any powers!

~ South Park, "Good Times with Weapons" [8.1]
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 05:37:26 PM by devonapple »
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like itís carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That Iím positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets

Offline luminos

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2011, 05:41:03 PM »
Because eventually this will happen at the table:


Which is amusing, but misses the point.  I'm asking what actual procedures or aspects of the social contract prevent that from happening in the OP's group.  This is with the understanding that nothing would prevent sloth man from going into super parkour mode, given the OP's statement as such earlier.
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Offline Piell

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2011, 06:05:34 PM »
Which is amusing, but misses the point.  I'm asking what actual procedures or aspects of the social contract prevent that from happening in the OP's group.  This is with the understanding that nothing would prevent sloth man from going into super parkour mode, given the OP's statement as such earlier.

His character concept. If his character concept is "I can shoot eye beams" and the rest of the party/DM is ok with that, then fine he can shoot eye lasers.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2011, 06:07:18 PM »
If the rest of the group has a problem with Sloth Man's actions, then the rest of the group should speak up.  That's how FATE works.  If they don't have a problem with it, then...it's not a problem, now is it?
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Offline ryanshowseason2

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2011, 08:26:03 PM »
Heres how I'd design it to try and keep balance:

-1 stunt: Multi attack.

1. Multi attacks up to the lesser of (weapon skill ), alertness

2. Weapon rolls no longer generate shifts only weapon damage is applied, if weapon damage is 0 instead assume it is 1.

IE defense roll 3 attack roll 5 with a weapon 3 gun inflicts 3 damage, the shifts from the skill roll only serve as a qualifier if you hit or not.

3. Keep making attack rolls vs the first defense or newly rolled defense for a second target until you choose to stop, have no more attacks left or if a counter-attack stunt comes into play.

4. Subtract the following from your defense rolls until your next turn.
1 per additional attack over 1
1 per additional target over 1.

So sure take 5 attacks in one round but you might be hurting for it. At higher numbers it doesn't make sense to take -10 defense but hey I came up with this in 5 minutes.

Offline LCDarkwood

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2011, 08:46:47 PM »
How about allowing people with speed powers to make spray attacks/maneuvers regardless of what weapon they are using.

Gun to my head, I'd suggest this is the most elegant, easiest way forward, if you absolutely have to have this feature.

Offline ryanshowseason2

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2011, 08:55:52 PM »
Gun to my head, I'd suggest this is the most elegant, easiest way forward, if you absolutely have to have this feature.

It doesn't provide much benefit to attack the same target twice however.

IE, split up an 8 shift attack to +4 +4. say the opponent miraculously gets two +3 defenses.

With weapon
1: 4dmg
2: 6 dmg
3: 8 dmg
4: 10 dmg

But if you didn't "spray it" and opponent had +3 defense still you'd have
1: 6dmg
2: 7dmg
3: 8dmg
4: 9dmg

Plus with the sprayed attack you have a chance to fail and not do damage entirely on the second hit. All that for nothing? It should be a gamble to do but the rewards should be just as profound as the failures. But it is the quickest way to a solution.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 08:58:25 PM by ryanshowseason2 »

Offline LCDarkwood

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2011, 09:01:57 PM »
If you read his whole post, he suggested that Speed-powered folks would get some kind of a bonus on the split, to increase the potential benefits. While I don't have time to fine-tune that, I think probably this is the closest thing to the right track.

Offline Tsunami

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Re: Combat Speed
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2011, 01:40:53 AM »
It doesn't provide much benefit to attack the same target twice however.

IE, split up an 8 shift attack to +4 +4. say the opponent miraculously gets two +3 defenses.

With weapon
1: 4dmg
2: 6 dmg
3: 8 dmg
4: 10 dmg

But if you didn't "spray it" and opponent had +3 defense still you'd have
1: 6dmg
2: 7dmg
3: 8dmg
4: 9dmg

Plus with the sprayed attack you have a chance to fail and not do damage entirely on the second hit. All that for nothing? It should be a gamble to do but the rewards should be just as profound as the failures. But it is the quickest way to a solution.
It's not meant to be used on a single target, on a single target you can simply describe your one attack as being multiple attacks.
No benefit in damage for single target, that's true, but then again multiple actions only get really interesting when there are multiple targets involved, and that's what my idea was supposed to make possible.