I'm curious -- why did you choose to rename Conviction to Faith? If you're keeping that sort of Skill in order to keep the Dresden Files themes and system, there's no need to rename it, right?

When it comes to Create Advantage, I was under the impression that the Aspect stays in existence as long as the caster concentrates on it and it is within his line of sight. I got this from one of the blog posts made by Fred Hicks when discussing some of the rules tweaks in Fate Core. http://www.faterpg.com/2013/blocks-and-borders-live-in-fate-core/

What do you think?

I appreciate what you've written up here. I'm currently working on getting involved in an online Dresden Files chat game and I'm trying to persuade the Admins to adopt the refinements from the Fate Core into the Dresden rules. So, seeing someone who has already done it, with the options appearing to be a painless transition really meets my need for clarity and boost my confidence that this can be done without a hassle.

Yes, since all we have to go on is Harry's point of view, we third-party observers can't really be sure what's possible or not. There are instances in the rule books where the rules say "A spellcaster can't to this..." and in the margins Harry or Bob will pipe up and say, "Well, what about so-and-so, he/she could do that..." So, I would agree that no single Wizard or spellcaster knows what all of magic everywhere is capable of.

Without having to resort to every spellcaster PC write a treatise about their view of magic, what can we do?

I think the first, most obvious answer is to use the character to make sense of things. "Does this application of Evocation make sense for the character and, if so, why?" Aspects are really helpful here. Asking the player of a spellcaster to have at least one Aspect that sort of sums up their philosophy or belief about magic would be a really good idea.

Harry Dresden has NOT SO SUBTLE, BUT STILL QUICK TO ANGER.
Molly Carpenter has SUBTLETY IS ITS OWN POWER.

In the DFRPG they explain how this works to their advantage and their disadvantage. Molly's good with Veils and Illusions and mucking around with people's minds because she approaches magic from that point of view. Subtle magic is her power and doing something that isn't subtle is really hard for her. Harry is just the opposite. Subtlety is not his bag, but power and anger and wreaking fiery vengeance upon things is his specialty. So, when he tries to Veil things, it sucks. But when he tries to blow things up, he succeeds in spectacular fashion!

Another way to avoid breaking the game with Evocation would be sticking to the Inherent Limitations in the book. You can't use Evocation to affect anything that's not within your line of sight. It's too quick and dirty for that. It's pooling up and redirecting energy where you need it to go in the moment. So, no affecting things beyond your line of sight. Another limitation is: Evocations have a very short duration. Usually this means one exchange, sometimes two or three. There are rules for pushing the duration beyond one exchange: it requires extended concentration and/or extra shifts of power. Other limitations I've noticed with Evocation are: one roll, cast spell. You can't build power as you can with Thaumaturgy. You decide on how much power you're going to need and you go for it. To add to that risk you also take Mental stress for every Evocation. That will limit the frequency of powerful Evocations right off the bat for any character that doesn't want to risk unconsciousness and a shattered mind.

You also have the four things that Evocation does: Attack, Block, Maneuver, and Counterspell. Most of that is pretty straightforward. It's the Maneuvers (or Create Advantage) that his been the point of contention for me. I'm trying to figure out it's range and boundaries.

I think that as long as I can stick to the aforementioned Inherent Limitations of Evocation, anything's on the table, right?

If things are done the way I'm thinking, what are examples of that getting quickly out of hand and possibly ruining the fun for everyone at the table or making Evocation the most powerful/useful Power in the game?

I don't want Evocation to be the most powerful ability. I just want something other than a Magic Gun that comes in 5 flavors.



EDIT: I'm also trying to think of a way to incorporate all the various -mancers and Focused Practitioners into both Evocation and Thaumaturgy, or rather, Channeling and Ritual. For example, a pyromancer is easily someone who studies the Element of Fire either with Channeling or Evocation, but how does that work with this Ritual/Thaumaturgy Power? Another example is the mysterious chronomancer. That's some kind of Thaumaturgy practice, but there must also be Channeling or Evocations that work in a similar manner... perhaps the Element of Water, representing the flow of time, a river that can rush or babble, freeze or ... in dire upheavals ... flow backward. Stuff like that.

Yes, indeed. Very well said.

Thank you!

Thank you so much for your contributions. I appreciate the perspective of experience with the system and the narrative from the Dresden Files novels that help to color the game's system. I was reminded that the magic system is designed to represent what we can see or can know from the fiction in the books, and I also read that one of the limitations of doing things like that is that the writers of the game can only see things from Harry Dresden's point of view. That, and Sanctaphrax's post, puts things in an entirely new perspective for me.

One of my first visualizations of the Evocation Power in use was something akin to Avatar: the Last Airbender. I've been reassured that it's not exactly like that, but there are elements (no pun intended) from that sort of thing that can bleed over into DFRPG. An example of that being what Haru mentioned: a flighty aeromancer, a stoic terramancer (which is very close to my own character concept), a hot-headed pyromancer.

So, here's the next evolution of my inquiry...
Is it feasible for a wizard to have a mystical blind spot so that he or she turns out to be something like an elementalist? Thaumaturgy is not bound by the themes or restrictions of the Five Elements used in Evocation, but isn't it possible that a would-be wizard or an auto-didactic sorcerer might believe in those themes and restrictions and carries them over into her Thaumaturgy practices? Would that be your standard Wizard Template with an Aspect to reflect such a mystical blindspot or would that be a Focused Practitioner or something?

What do you guys think?

Also, what do you think Molly Carpenter was doing magically/mechanically speaking when she violated the 4th Law if it wasn't some repeated use of a subtle, but harmful, Evocation?

Hola!

I'm new to the game and I'm interested in understand more experienced players' take on the various purview of the Elements of Evocation magic. I have read one small article that reminds everyone that, in addition to the obvious literal element, each element covers a sort of symbolic base. Air is tied to thoughts, while Spirit is tied to emotions. Earth is good at strengthening things while Water is good for dissolving things. Fire handles destruction but also purification. All this makes perfect sense to me and I was looking for expansions on these sorts of ideas.

For example: In addition to Air controlling winds and things like that, it is the element of motion and freedom. So any Evocation that might deal with motion and freedom would be an Air Evocation. This might include enhanced speed, flight, acceleration, deceleration, telekinesis-type thing. The book says that Air is suitable for fine manipulations, so it can be used to pick locks. I would say since Air is the element of freedom, an Evocation might not just pick a lock, I might just use it to put the temporary Aspect UNLOCKED on a door, car, or pair of handcuffs. Or use it to escape any confinement that isn't airtight.

Do you think those are appropriate uses of Air Evocations? Might one also use Air Evocations to enhance their senses or memory or perform quick & dirty Psychomancy spells?

What do you think? What do you think about the other Elements?

Thanks so much for your time!