Author Topic: Fate Core Conversion  (Read 8273 times)

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Fate Core Conversion
« on: April 24, 2013, 08:04:31 AM »
Hi guys,
has anyone started on a conversion to Fate Core yet? I am just about to start a campaign and frantically converting Dresden rpg to Fate Core. I am trying to streamline the skills and the magic system. So far the skill list is looking like:

Athletics
Burglary
Contacts
Crafts
Deceive
Drive
Empathy
Fight
Investigate
Lore
Notice
Physique
Provoke
Rapport
Resources
Scholar
Shoot
Stealth
Survival
Will

Changed Skills: Endurance and Might have been replaced with Physique. Presence now is incorporated into Rapport (although it will need a stunt to affect groups) and Perform is now covered using Rapport, Scholar, Crafts and Athletics, depending on what you are trying to do, with stunts providing specific bonuses. Guns has now been replaced with the more generic Shoot, covering bows, crossbows, slings etc, although Physique is used for thrown weapons. Fists and Weapons have been replaced with Fight.Conviction and Discipline have been replaced with Will, although a spellcaster can choose to be better at control or power.

Character Generation: Since there are now fewer skills, when creating a character, choose the power level as usual:

Feet in the Water: 6 Refresh and 20 points worth of skills. Skill cap of Great (+4)
Up to your Waist: 7 Refresh and 20 points worth of skills. Skill cap of Great (+4)
Chest Deep: 8 Refresh and 25 points worth of skills. Skill cap of Superb (+5)
Submerged: 10 Refresh and 30 points worth of skills. Skill cap of Superb (+5)

However, these are just guides. The Gm can set any of these "dials" to whatever they wish when creating a campaign.

And here are my current Evocation rules:

So here is a reworking of my first idea, using your ideas and suggestions:

Will, Control and Power
Your Will, along with Lore, determines your skill with magic, but each spellcasting character also has a Control and Power rating, both equal to Will. Since some spellcasters are more interested in power than control (Harry for example), and others prefer a more cautious approach to magic, when creating your character (or when first gaining spellcasting powers) you may choose to modify either Control or Power by +1. You must, however, reduce the other rating by -1. By taking specialisms and focus items, you may modify your Control and Power ratings for each type of spell cast.
 
Gathering Power
To achieve an effect with magic you need to channel a number of shifts into the spell. Evocation magic is taxing so when casting a spell, you must take a point of mental stress, plus 1 for each shift that exceeds your Power rating.
You may use evocation magic to produce the following effects:

Overcome: Bypass or remove a physical obstacle or situational aspect, so long as you can justify it with the element you are using, nullify an existing spell by the force of your will, or deliberately hex technology

Shifts of Power: You must channel enough shifts to equal or surpass the opposition of the obstacle or situational aspect. When nullifying a spell effect (known as a counterspell) the shifts in the spell must equal or surpass the shifts in the countered spell (or the spell’s complexity); if you make a successful Lore roll opposed by the Will of the caster, you can determine this value. When hexing technology, the power required is determined by your age, and the complexity of the technology (See YS258).

Create an Advantage: Create a situational aspect, placed on a scene, object or character. Each aspect can act as an obstacle to certain actions based on its type; barriers block or prevent movement (Wall of Thorns, Trapped in Quicksand), shields provide protection from physical attacks (Force Field, Personal Whirlwind), and veils block a target’s perception (Invisibility, Cloak of Shadows). Each aspect provides a passive opposition of Good (+3), although the caster may actively defend using their Will (this is not a Control roll, do not apply control bonuses). An aspect will last for as long as they are maintained, or are removed or overcome. However, it may make sense for certain aspects to remain. If the aspect leaves a solid, tangible presence in the world, such as a Wall of Rock , a book of shelves blown over to create Fallen Shelves, or a warehouse Set on Fire, the aspect will remain long after the caster stops maintaining it’s effects. However, when a character fails to maintain such an aspect, they lose all free invocations assigned to it.

Shifts of Power: Creating an aspect requires 3 shifts, plus a further 2 shifts for each free invocation assigned to it. 

Maintaining aspects:  Most aspects created by magic require maintenance- their effects just can’t exist in the world without a wizard focusing his will.  This doesn’t hamper your other actions, but you may only maintain one such aspect at a time.

Attack: You may make a physical attack against a target up to 2 zones away.

Shifts of Power: You may increase the Weapon rating of the attack by 1 for each 1 shift channelled into the spell. For +2 shifts, your attack affects all targets within a zone, extending this area by +2 shifts each zone. 

Defend: Owing to the speed of an attack, it is not possible to defend against attacks using evocations, unless you possess a suitable stunt.

Controlling Power
Now the energy of the spell is gathered, you need to harness and control it. Make a Control roll, plus any specialisation and focus item bonuses that apply, opposed by the shifts of power in the spell.

•   If you fail, the spell is still cast but you suffer backlash or fallout. Determine the shifts of failure (the difference between the difficulty and your roll). You may take any or all of these shifts as mental or physical stress (backlash), and/or have the spell leak into the world (fallout). Each shift of fallout will cause damage to the environment and anyone around – the greater the shifts, the more chaos such uncontrolled magic causes. Each shift of fallout also removes one shift of power from the spell.

•   If you tie, succeed, or succeed with style, the spell takes effect as intended. The outcome will vary based on the spell’s action type.

When making an attack or placing an aspect on an unwilling target, the target will get to resist, regardless of this outcome. Your spell will only affect them if your Control roll exceeds their result.

Heres my current character sheet:

http://s557.photobucket.com/user/Phantomdoodler/library/?sort=3&page=1
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 07:44:49 AM by Phantomdoodler »

Offline Gatts

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 10:19:47 AM »
Apologies if I missed it, as I only skimmed the core post but in the Magic System Toolkit (A preview of the system toolkit) there was a stripped down version of the Evocation system I believe. It could be handy for you, if you haven't seen it.

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 10:49:25 AM »
Yes i looked over that, and it was helpful. The idea of just rolling a skill and the outcome determines the power of effect is certainly tempting- it very easy to run. However I am trying to keep the feel of Dresden files. The idea of believing in what you are doing and focusing will. Really I just want to clean up the current version so everything fits the four action/four outcome resolution system of Fate Core.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 08:35:12 AM by Phantomdoodler »

Offline Dougansf

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2013, 09:17:06 PM »
My group and I have been working on a conversion for a few months now.  The results are online, and you can make comments on the documents.

We recently combined Discipline and Conviction in to Will, and got rid of the Social stress track.  Gaining spellcasting gives you a Magic stress track, so you still have to deal with taking stress for casting.

Take a look: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwouQYZcwYj2aDdORkgzeVNBa2s&usp=sharing

Offline Troy

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2013, 09:26:29 PM »
I'm curious -- why did you choose to rename Conviction to Faith? If you're keeping that sort of Skill in order to keep the Dresden Files themes and system, there's no need to rename it, right?

When it comes to Create Advantage, I was under the impression that the Aspect stays in existence as long as the caster concentrates on it and it is within his line of sight. I got this from one of the blog posts made by Fred Hicks when discussing some of the rules tweaks in Fate Core. http://www.faterpg.com/2013/blocks-and-borders-live-in-fate-core/

What do you think?

I appreciate what you've written up here. I'm currently working on getting involved in an online Dresden Files chat game and I'm trying to persuade the Admins to adopt the refinements from the Fate Core into the Dresden rules. So, seeing someone who has already done it, with the options appearing to be a painless transition really meets my need for clarity and boost my confidence that this can be done without a hassle.
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Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2013, 10:50:50 PM »
Hi,
thanks. Yes, I thought Faith fitted the new skill names a little better. I think Conviction and Will could be confused by players, while Faith could be used to say, keep a vampire at bay, but I am really not sure if I actually want to keep it on reflection. I dont like the idea of not actually making a roll for conviction/faith during spell casting.

Looking at the new blocks and borders rules, I think thats the right way to go. Its just a case of making it feel Dresden like...

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2013, 11:00:07 PM »
My group and I have been working on a conversion for a few months now.  The results are online, and you can make comments on the documents.

We recently combined Discipline and Conviction in to Will, and got rid of the Social stress track.  Gaining spellcasting gives you a Magic stress track, so you still have to deal with taking stress for casting.

Take a look: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BwouQYZcwYj2aDdORkgzeVNBa2s&usp=sharing

Actually thats looking very nice :) So I am intrigued about combining Discipline and Conviction. Are you still using the draw power and control it nature of magic, and if so, how does that work with just Will?

Offline Dougansf

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2013, 11:03:14 PM »
Actually thats looking very nice :) So I am intrigued about combining Discipline and Conviction. Are you still using the draw power and control it nature of magic, and if so, how does that work with just Will?

Thanks :)

Check out the Powers document.  At the beginning of the Spellcasting powers it explains how to do it.

We haven't playtested it yet though.

We're still debating making Rote spells the average of your Control and Power, not just based on your Control.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 05:23:21 AM »
There are a few things that worry me here.

First, you've made spellcasting significantly stronger by only requiring one skill for it. And spellcasting is already pretty strong.

Second, you've made spellcasting significantly stronger by letting people defend reflexively with it. And again, it's already strong.

Third, Athletics and Rapport seem more powerful than the other skills, while Burglary seems weak.

Also, I'm not sure it's advisable to reduce the number of skill points available to Chest Deep and Submerged characters. I'd rather let Chest Deep characters get two Superb skills. And it seems wrong that Submerged characters can't make a traditional pyramid.

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 08:44:22 AM »
Regarding skills, I have used the Fate Core list, (adding Scholar and Survival) to keep things simple. Yes Rapport coves a lot of social skills now, as in Fate Core, but i think 4 social skills (Provoke, Rapport, Deceive, Contacts) is enough for a 20 skill system. I think Perform could actually be incorporated into several skills, using a stunt to provide a bonus (Rapport for entertaining a crowd, Crafts for painting, sculpture, Scholar for poetry, musical composition and art history, Athletics for dancing etc). Burglary does cover hacking and other elicit technical skills, so its pretty useful. I think using Athletics for thrown attacks may be too useful, so Physique could be used for chucking thrown weapons up to a zone away. Since I am not using a social stress track, Presence becomes less useful. Rapport can be used for crowds or groups, but you need to split your results to cover more than one target. With a stunt such as Crowd Control, Commanding Presence or Team Building, you could ignore this rule and affect large groups of individuals as Presence currently works.

Regarding magic, there are now only two stress tracks - physical and mental, so for evocation spells, wizards wont be able to blast away all day, especially if they have been mentally attacked via Provoke.And you still need Lore to be a half decent Wizard. The reflexive nature of spells is tied into the four action rules. I cant see why a wizard couldnt cast a quick shield-based rote spell (which would still cost him at least 1 mental stress). Using Will to resist attacks is just incorporating the new situational aspect rules regarding blocks and represents the wizards mental focus trying to cast the spell quickly. However, I think its entirely appropriate that you couldnt use any free invocations the spell provides if you are casting the spell in reaction to an attack. That stops players loading up a rote shield spell so that they are immune to surprise attacks.

Regarding starting skill points, since there are 5 less skills than Dresden (80%), each power level should have 80% of the previous ratings. I have actually been a little generous here since the correct amount should be 16/20/24/28. Actually i think 15/20/25/30 would be more appropriate.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 09:26:28 AM by Phantomdoodler »

Offline fantazero

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 01:23:50 PM »
Move
Talk
Fight
Magic

and done  ;D

Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 02:06:28 PM »
Character sheet and Skill List cheat sheet up here. I am currently working in cheat sheets for evocation, thaumaturgy and spellcasters spell worksheet.

http://s557.photobucket.com/user/Phantomdoodler/media/Skilllist.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Offline Dougansf

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 03:20:00 PM »
There are a few things that worry me here.

First, you've made spellcasting significantly stronger by only requiring one skill for it. And spellcasting is already pretty strong.

I disagree.  Considering that most would have a casting stat at apex skill anyway, all it's really doing is allow the caster to be more rounded with other skills.  Makes the caster stronger, but not spellcasting itself.  And the advancement with Focus Items and such still has to deal with Power and Control ratings.

Perhaps with advancement over time that changes, but we haven't gotten there yet.

Second, you've made spellcasting significantly stronger by letting people defend reflexively with it. And again, it's already strong.

Agreed, I'm personally on the fence about it.  But we have had a hard time finding a mechanic that would allow for the scene where Ramirez blocks the gunfire from a WCV with "I go first" speed, and various other close calls throughout the fiction.

Third, Athletics and Rapport seem more powerful than the other skills, while Burglary seems weak.

Uh... okay.  There's been lots of talk about Athletics being too powerful.  I won't argue that.
I consider the Core version of Rapport far more clearly defined and less powerful than it was in DFRPG.

Also, I'm not sure it's advisable to reduce the number of skill points available to Chest Deep and Submerged characters. I'd rather let Chest Deep characters get two Superb skills. And it seems wrong that Submerged characters can't make a traditional pyramid.

I agree with this.
The Fate Core pyramid is effectively equal to the 20 points of Feet Wet, even with the reduced skill list.

I think using Athletics for thrown attacks may be too useful, so Physique could be used for chucking thrown weapons up to a zone away.

If you're throwing to cause Stress, it should be Shoot.  Making either of those skills into Stress causing skills should be worth a stunt at least.

Regarding magic, there are now only two stress tracks - physical and mental, so for evocation spells, wizards wont be able to blast away all day, especially if they have been mentally attacked via Provoke.And you still need Lore to be a half decent Wizard. The reflexive nature of spells is tied into the four action rules. I cant see why a wizard couldnt cast a quick shield-based rote spell (which would still cost him at least 1 mental stress). Using Will to resist attacks is just incorporating the new situational aspect rules regarding blocks and represents the wizards mental focus trying to cast the spell quickly. However, I think its entirely appropriate that you couldnt use any free invocations the spell provides if you are casting the spell in reaction to an attack. That stops players loading up a rote shield spell so that they are immune to surprise attacks.

I really don't like the idea of Provoke reducing the number of spells you can cast.  That doesn't hold up to the fiction well.

In DFRPG, surprise attacks don't allow defend at all.  That's why we put in a clause on the reactive magical defense that you have to be aware of the attack.  Catch a wizard off guard, and he's paste.

Offline Troy

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 04:32:28 PM »
Agreed, I'm personally on the fence about it.  But we have had a hard time finding a mechanic that would allow for the scene where Ramirez blocks the gunfire from a WCV with "I go first" speed, and various other close calls throughout the fiction.

Could this be an Alertness Stunt that enables the character to go first always only when defending himself or others from an attack? It might be similar to On Your Toes (YS 149) or something.

Not So Fast. Once per conflict, you go first regardless of your Alertness rating as long as your action is used to defend against an attack. Your action can defend yourself or someone else, but your action must always be defensive in order for this Stunt to apply.

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Offline Phantomdoodler

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Re: Fate Core Conversion
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 04:53:34 PM »
Regarding Defensive magic, I totally agree you needing to see the attack coming. This could all be handed with a stunt though, and maybe a Fate point cost if you think it would get over used. Something like:

Insta Shield
For 1 Fate point, you may cast a rote shielding spell in response to being attacked. Roll your Will against the attack, applying any free invocations for rote spell if you wish. If the shield holds, you may continue to maintain its effect. 

Regarding skill points, sorry I meant to set the cap at superb for chest deep. Anyway, these should be only a guide- if you want to start your player with a 5 step pyramid go ahead. Just bear in mind you will have at least +1 in 15 out of the 20 available skills, rather than 15/25 in Dresden. It just seems a little broken to keep the same number of points if the number of skills are reduced:

Fate Core (P46):
The number of skills you get should be relative to the size of the skill list. Our default skill list has 18 skills, and the Great pyramid gives you a rating in 10 of them, which means every character has some capability in over half of the total number of things you can do, and there’s room for six PCs to peak (as in, to choose their three top skills) without overlap.
You can tweak this for individual games, especially if you adjust the skill cap. Just keep in mind that bigger pyramids mean more overlap between characters, unless your game has a longer skill list.

Regarding mental attacks using Provoke,that is meant to represent severe mental and psychological trauma, like being in an abusive relationship or being tortured, rather than just scaring someone ( the Provoke skill does say your relationship and circumstance must allow a Provoke attack to be valid). If emotional trauma caused you to question your own beliefs and shatter your confidence and sense of self, it would certainly hamper your magical abilities which rely on your belief in magic. I personally would rarely use mental damage from provoke.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:14:17 PM by Phantomdoodler »