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Messages - KurtinStGeorge

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1
DF Spoilers / Re: Does Thomas get a free pass?
« on: March 06, 2024, 10:10:47 AM »
I suspect the only way Thomas is forgiven by the Swartalves is if he does something that evens the score, or balances the scales, in their eyes.  That along with an explanation of why Thomas did what he did earlier.  I think Thomas has to do something stunning and unexpected like save Mr. Etri; and probably other members of Etri's family, from certain death.

Assuming Etri and company ever need rescuing, it might be easier for Thomas to do so if he gets an upgrade, like getting to wield Amoracchius.  Sanya took up Esperacchius in part to redeem himself for the things he did when he carried Magog's coin.  So, an example in the Dresdenverse has already been set for Thomas to follow.  And it just so happens the Warden of the very place where Thomas is imprisoned has the means to offer Thomas the sword.  Finally, it would make Thomas into an ally of another Knight who wields a weapon which could probably drive out and possibly harm or even destroy Nemesis without harming Justine or her unborn child.  I don't think Jim would allow Nemesis to be destroyed at this point in the overall story, but driven out of Justine and given a real scare, I could see that being a real possibility.

To me, this idea is such a natural fit that Jim might not want to do it; and I hate to use this phrase because of the negative connotation it can sometimes have, instead Jim might decide to subvert our expectations, or at least my expectation.  According to the page that's labeled "Upcoming Works" Jim is only about half way done writing Twelves Months.  If Thomas gets the upgrade I suggested, I think it would probably occur near the end of that book.  So, we have a while to wait before we find out.

2
DF Spoilers / Re: Great another starborn theory, this time with vampires
« on: February 02, 2024, 10:20:56 AM »
Cite, please?  I don't recall this, at all -- that the Red Court was ever composed of half-turned.

The Red King and all the LOON's were full-Ramp, and AFAIK have been so for a long time -- long enough ago that they were well-established as rulers in Mesoamerica when Cortez arrived.

I recall WoJ that they got so powerful by somehow using their venom to addict entities previously worshipped as gods by mesoamericans, and drain that power to use for themselves.

I don't recall this, either.

It's quite simple, but perhaps I didn't state it clearly.  Every member of the Red Court was at one time a human who was bitten by a full member of the Red Court who had authority to make new members.  (Side note:) Apparently, Bianca didn't have permission or authority to do this until she was promoted in Grave Peril.  I don't recall if it was Thomas or Justine who told Harry about her new ability or authority to create new members of the Red Court.

However, before becoming a full fledged Red Court vampire, each individual is only half-turned.  You already know this from Susan's example.  Some people who are bitten might make their first kill the night they were bitten while others hold out for years, decades or even centuries, like Martin.  So, every member of the Red Court was once only half-turned until they made their first kill.

We don't know if the Red Court could infect a non-human with their bloodlust.  We haven't been told if this was possible.

3
DF Spoilers / Re: Great another starborn theory, this time with vampires
« on: February 02, 2024, 10:04:50 AM »
Do you remember which book?  My problem is I vaguely remember the passage, but I am not sure which book it comes from.  If I knew that, I could go back and read the passage and the context. I agree that Bob said there was no known way to cure the Susan and I seem to remember Lea admitting that what she did wasn't a cure when Harry pushed her on it.

Changes

4
DF Spoilers / Re: Great another starborn theory, this time with vampires
« on: January 27, 2024, 01:51:33 AM »
I think the Ramp's are creatures of the Nevernever, natively; I note several similarities in the descriptions of the native-form (without fleshmask) Ramps, and the Ick... and suspect them of being related entities.

It appears that after writing Storm Front Jim retconned the Red Court.  In SF, Harry mentions that vampires are creatures of the Nevernever and that it takes most of their energy to simply maintain themselves on the mortal plane.  I don’t remember if this was after Harry had his run-in with Bianca or if this bit of exposition occurred before that point in the story, but she was the only vampire we meet in SF, so Jim; through Harry, told us the Red Court are native to the Nevernever.

However, this bit about vampires being native to the Nevernever has never been mentioned again.  It really doesn’t make sense anyway.  The Red Court were once humans who got half-turned until they killed someone and went full Rampire.  Maybe whatever created the Red King was native to the Nevernever, but since that time all the members of the Red Court were humans that had been turned.  If a member of the Red Court could infect a non-human, we haven’t seen one or been told it was possible to do.


5
I’m wondering if Jim’s defense for the misspellings is the story is taking place far in the future after some cataclysmic event made the world the way it is in the books.  Languages can change over time, with different spellings, different pronunciations and even different syntax and tenses.

That could be total nonsense, but if I was in Jim’s shoes, that would my excuse.  It would be more believable if there are slightly different spellings for ships with English names or English noble names.  I only listened to the audio book, so I can’t tell.

6
DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry
« on: January 16, 2024, 02:47:31 AM »
What would the White Court of Vampires have to do with Lea and Justin?  Yes, Lord Raith murdered Harry's mother, but I don't see any evidence that he had anything to do with either Lea or Justin.

I should have explained.  It's manipulation on a scale that someone like Lara Raith could admire, though Lara or any of the Raiths would have used a different method to attain it. 

Lea makes a deal with Margarite LeFay to protect Harry, then while still fulfilling her given word, either allows Harry's father to be murdered or does it herself as part of a deal with Justin DuMorne.  DuMorne thinks he has won a great prize but Lea has simply offloaded the drudge work of teaching Harry basic magic skills until she can find a way to dispose of Justin.  A break between Justin and Harry (Did Lea have anything to do with that? Meaning, did she have another deal with whoever summoned HWWB?) allows Lea to get Harry to remove Justin for her and to top everything off, it allows Lea to make a binding deal with a young, desperate and naïve, starborn wizard Harry.

P.S. New topic on the same character.  Thinking back to the dénouement of the Battle of Chicken Pizza in Changes, Ebenezer approaches Harry and Lea and asks her to leave so he can discus "family business" with Harry.  Ebenezer knew who Lea was and he knew that she knew about Eb and Harry's familial relationship. 

It is one thing for Ebenezer to recognize The Leanansidhe; Lea is a very powerful figure in the Winter Court and Ebenezer has been around long enough to have had some experience with the fae, but as was pointed out in Battle Ground, Eb doesn't believe in casually dropping any information about anything, especially family.  Even if Eb guessed that Lea knew that Eb was Harry's grandfather, he still wouldn't have mentioned it, he might have said something like "White Council business" instead.

What I want to know is, how did Ebenezer know that Lea knew?  Margaret LeFay was on the run and probably realized that her time was running out when she made the deal with Lea to protect Harry.  Ebenezer wasn't there.  Ebenezer didn't visit Harry in the orphanage, Lea did.  Even if Harry told Eb about the deal he had struck with Lea to defeat Justin; after the White Council put Harry under the Doom of Damocles and under Eb's guidance, Ebenezer wouldn't have known how much Lea knew about Harry's family.

Did Ebenezer make his own deal with Lea?  I'm not speculating what such a deal might have involved, but those two know each other and not just by reputation.  It suggests something more is going on here and perhaps something important. 

7
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 04, 2024, 06:15:38 PM »
It might have been Summer Knight when Mab took on Harry's "contract" with Lea.  The three favors he owed her for the "confidence" she gave him when he was sixteen to take on Justin.  Mab knew that what Lea did was mostly song and dance and that it is no small thing that a sixteen year old apprentice can take on, defeat and kill a fully trained warden of the White Council.

I think you are reading more significance into my statement "We don't know how Mab's intelligence network works." than is actually there.  All I am saying is we don't know if Mab had her own spies watching various starborn mortals and one of them reported to her about Harry's confrontation with Justin or if Mab had a conversation with Lea and asked her about the starborn mortal Lea was working with or if the Winter Queen has some kind of intellectus that keeps her informed about Lea's plans.  To clarify my original statement, what I am really saying is, it is not important how Mab learned about Harry, only that at some point she became interested in taking the time to watch Harry in action.

Also, I must admit my question about what would impress Mab is a bit of a trick question.  What I really should have said is, I don't think Mab would have taken the time to watch a sixteen year old Harry.  Before his confrontations with HWWB and Justin, Harry hadn't done anything that would have made it worth Mab taking the time to watch him.  Hearing that Harry defeated Justin would have drawn Mab's interest.  I think finding out that a sixteen year old Harry had banished a Walker would have been even more impressive, but Mab couldn't predict what the White Council would do with Harry.  The moment had passed when Mab could see Harry in action and make her own judgement about him.  So, Mab had to wait.  She had to wait to see if Harry would first survive the White Council and then wait for a better time, a time when unfolding events would provide Mab with the opportunity see Harry in action for herself.  I think that time was during Grave Peril.

8
DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 04, 2024, 05:32:45 PM »
My personal theory is that since we now know hhwb wasn't sent by Justin, he was sent for him.

Which meant that Justin (who had hijacked Maggie's Starborn plan for his own ends) needed Harry and Elaine ready early, which meant abandoning traditional brainwashing/conditioning in favour of Magical alternatives.

Unfortunately for him, hhwb was able to turn Justin's anti-outsider wmd against him.

This is a pretty good guess, but I also question it.  I mean, how do we know Justin didn't call up HWWB?  I like the idea, it does explain why Justin decided he needed to enthrall Harry at that particular moment rather than slowly indoctrinate or slowly enthrall him, but I don't think we have proof the Walker was called up by someone else.  Also, if Justin didn't call up the Outsider, who did?

If you follow this idea to its conclusion, it means there was another player in the game.  A person Harry currently has no clue exists.  Actually, it is possible that Harry has met this person, but he isn't aware that this person played such a significant role in his own life.  You also have to ask why this unknown party called up HWWB, because I don't think it would have been just to go after Justin.  We know that Harry meeting and defeating the Walker is what made Harry decide he had to stop running away from Justin, but did the party who called up HWWB expect that to happen?  That would mean they expected Harry to defeat the Outsider.  Perhaps they were testing Harry, to see if he was all that. 

This was also the event that gave Lea the opportunity to offer Harry a deal, power to defeat Justin in exchange for Harry's loyalty or service.  However, Lea told Harry in Ghost Story that she didn't witness his confrontation with HWWB.  That is why she wanted to hear the story of young Harry's confrontation with the Walker.  I'm going to have to reread that scene between Harry and Lea to see if that is actually what she said or if she was playing word games with him.  Even if Lea didn't witness that confrontation she could have been aware of it if she also had made a deal with this phantom person who called up HWWB.  Than again, that might have violated her agreement to protect Harry so perhaps she wasn't involved.  I suppose it depends on how her agreement with Margaret LeFay was worded.  I find it hard to believe that Lea wasn't looking for an event that would cause a break between Harry and Justin.  Therefore, it is highly likely that Lea knows more about this episode than she let on in her conversation with Harry in Ghost Story.  Of course, that last statement depends on there being another party who called up HWWB.  This is either a really great idea or a rabbit hole to nowhere.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Why did Dumorne put the mental whamy on when he did?
« on: January 04, 2024, 01:01:57 AM »
  I agree that Justin was old school, but I don't think Mab is the mover and shaker here.  I also agree that there is a lot of missing information and when and if we ever find out what and why of it it will turn out to be a lot more complicated than we think.

I'm in total agreement with this statement.  I think Mab only gets personally involved when the stakes are reaching their high point.  Training Harry to be ready to take on Maeve and company.  Taking a direct role in the peace talks she knew were phony to draw out Ethniu and then taking a direct role in the battle that followed.  Mab's behavior reminds me of Julius Caesar at the Battle of Alesia, which lasted three days.  On the final day of the battle when the Gauls were launching their last desperate assault to break Roman lines, Caesar dismounted from his horse, drew his sword and took his place in one of Roman cohorts to show everyone around him that this was the make or break moment.

Mab may have been aware of Harry from a young age, but she probably kept tabs on many star-born individuals.  She might even know more about Elaine's parents than Harry or Elaine do.  Mab almost certainly knew who Margaret LeFey was, but if she ever met Harry's mother face to face, she hasn't let on this was the case.  Mab told Harry, "From the first time I laid eyes on you, I saw a being who had potential for true greatness."  I suspect that was when Harry frustrated Lea during the events in Grave Peril.  (Mab specifically mentioned seeing this event when she first met Harry in Summer Knight.)  It could have been earlier, when Harry defeated Justin, but what was most likely to impress Mab, a powerful young wizard defeating an older overconfident wizard or Harry outwitting one of the most formidable members of the Winter Court?

We don't know how Mab's intelligence network works.  Specifically, we don't know how Mab became aware of Lea's involvement with Margaret LeFay and her son.  We only know that at some point Mab became interested in seeing Harry in action, to make her own judgement about his potential.   

10
DF Spoilers / Re: ebenezer didn't look for harry
« on: January 03, 2024, 07:07:57 PM »
I think there are 2 possibilities:

#1
After reading Peace Talks, he did look for Harry and he did find him. But he didn't take him in, because he was taken care of. I think he planned on watching, if little Harry started showing magical talent at some time. If it never happened, Harry would never have known him. If Harry showed talent, Ebenezar would have taken him as apprentice or apprentice him to an other wizard he trusted.

But then Harry was adopted by Justin. Maybe Justin even got a tip from Ebenezar. During this time Justin was still supposed to be a respected warden, so good master material for Harry. But why did Eb approve of Justin not introducing his apprentice to the council?

#2
After Malcolm died, Lea took care that Harry disappeared from all mundane and magical screens, because of a deal Margaret made with her for Harry's protection. So nobody could find Harry. Not even powerful wizards with blood relation. Justin was just screening the orphanages for weird incidences. That's how he found Harry. It was the impossible long jump.


I think #2 is more likely, considering Morgan's journal entry. I guess, Justin still appeared at council meetings, but never told any other council wizard about his apprentices. But I also can totally imagine Ebenezar knowing where his grandson was, but just not interfering. Like he seemed to have done with his own daughter.
I hope this will be cleared up some day.

I won't be surprised if eventually we are told that Lea is the reason why Justin found out about and got ahold of Harry.  Now that I think about it, it is also possible Lea knows something about Elaine's origin story.  However, there is nothing in the novels, short stories or Q&A sessions with Jim that I've watched; and I've watched a lot of them, that remotely support this second idea.  It's pure speculation.

About my first and main idea, I keep thinking about a WoJ that states that Margaret LeFey didn't make the best possible deal she might have made with Lea for Harry's protection.  I have previously assumed that Margaret got Lea to agree to protect Harry from outside threats but didn't realize that Malcolm Dresden might also need protection.  In other words, Margaret thought that because Malcom Dresden wasn't a player in the supernatural world no one in that world would have a reason to target him.  Then again, perhaps Margaret did get Lea to agree to protect Malcolm Dresden, from everyone except herself.  I theorize that Lea either stood by and did nothing when Malcolm Dresden was murdered or she did it herself.

Lea's deal with Justin could have started when Malcolm Dresden was still alive.  Remove Malcolm to trap the boy in a system where he could be easily monitored and not wander the country with his father where anyone else might find him. Once Harry manifested magical abilities, Justin was suited to teach Harry basic use of magic.  Malcolm couldn't teach Harry about magic, so he was probably always seen as expendable by Lea. 

In my version of events Lea knew exactly what kind of person Justin was; even if the White Council didn't know, or fully know, about Justin.  She always planned to turn on him at the first opportunity and gain the use of Harry's abilities for herself.  Justin probably never realized that Lea had been training Harry; apparently to just believe in himself, when Harry returned to face him.  It's a series of moves that the White Court of Vampires would approve of.

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Cinder Spires Spoilers / Re: WarriorBorn review and discussion
« on: December 12, 2023, 05:42:25 AM »
I also really liked this novella.  The story was tightly focused and made a nice intro to the novel without it being an absolute necessity to have read it first.

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Cinder Spires Books / Re: piker gun tech makes no sense
« on: December 12, 2023, 05:39:20 AM »
I wondered about that myself.  It seemed a bit too Horatio Hornblower to me.  If they had something that looked like a mid 20th century artillery piece, that would have made more sense.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab autistic?
« on: November 17, 2023, 02:52:12 AM »
Jim just answered a question about the Jade Court which probably applies to Mab.  Jim said that members of Jade Court behave in a manner that might appear to be autistic, but not exactly.  The reason it may apply to Mab is Jim said it's just the way that creatures who are functionally immortal keep themselves sane.  They wrap themselves in ritual, performing specific behaviors.  I think in the Jade Court's case this behavior is exacerbated by the fact that their particular culture is so insular to begin with.

This might explain why Mab told Harry that he should kill Molly if Mab died during the events in Battle Ground.  Molly doesn't perform the kind of behaviors that Mab has become accustomed to doing to function as an immortal.  However, it's possible that Mab is wrong, that Molly has just found a different way to adjust to the pressure of being immortal.  I suppose that is a question for a different thread and probably one that cannot be answered until sometime in the future. 

Here's a link to the exact quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRcj4gvGXKI
The question starts at about 32:30 into the talk

14
I'm talking about everyone we can reasonably guess was infected by the Nemesis bug. 

There are also characters who may not have become infected, but who were tempted into making deals that corrupted them in other ways.  For example, I wouldn't be surprised if Victor Sells, The Hexenwolf FBI agents and Leonid Kravos weren't actually infected by Nemesis, despite what Lily told Harry in Cold Days.  Simply approaching and making a deal to teach Sells and Kravos black magic would quickly corrupt them and they would be willing to do just about anything to learn more.  We saw what the hexenwolf belt almost did to Harry, so it's no mystery how FBI agents were corrupted by them.  It's possible some or all of these characters did become nemfected, but I doubt it and in any case we can't be certain.

The first character who we can reasonably guess was nemfected is Aurora.  We don't know when Nemesis got to her, just that it was before the events in Summer Knight and because Elaine was spending time in the Summer Court, she makes a pretty good suspect.  The problem is we do not have any information about anyone else who may have been visiting Summer or had contact with Aurora.  If you go back and reread the scene in Summer Knight when Harry brought a wounded Elaine to be healed by Aurora, there were one or two other humans who were working with some of the Summer Fae on a couple of artistic endeavors.  They were about as minor as characters can get.  They didn't have any lines of dialogue and weren't named, but there very presence tells us that some other mortal could have visited Summer and infected Aurora.  How it was done is a mystery.

Next is the Leanansidhe.  We know she was given the tainted athame at Bianca's masquerade party.  Lea told Harry this in Ghost Story and Mab confirmed it near the end of Battle Ground.  Cowl and Kumori handled the gifts that Bianca gave out.  Unless Cowl took the gig of acting as one of Bianca's flunkies as a second job to pay off his student loans, it's a pretty good bet he knew exactly what he was handling.  Kumori might have also been in on the plot or Cowl might have kept her in the dark and gave her a seemingly plausible explanation for their actions that night.  My guess is she knew something, but maybe not everything.  If Elaine = Kumori then her knowing that she was helping to spread the Nemesis bug makes much more sense.

Maeve was tainted by contact with Lea. So there's no real mystery here.  She must have been tainted sometime before the events in Proven Guilty.

Cat Sith was most likely grabbed by HWWBf when the malk was covering Harry's retreat.  This would be an example of direct contamination from an Outsider, not by the use of a tainted item.

Justine is a real mystery.  I doubt she was contaminated because Nemesis jumped from Maeve when Murphy shot the ice princess in the head.  Justine wasn't acting like herself for a long time before Cold Days.  In the short story Even Hand she was acting like a top flight secret agent when she chose to go to Marcone's HQ in order to evade the Fomor lord who was chasing her.  That story took place between the events in Turn Coat and Changes, but I suspect Nemesis got to her much earlier than that.  Just before the duel in the Raith Deeps in White Night, Justine surprised Harry by the confident and collected way she was able to describe the events taking place and rivalry between Skavis and Malvora.  It was almost like she wasn't the real Justine. 

But when Justine got the Nemesis bug isn't nearly important than how she got it.  That is, if I'm right that it didn't happen on Demonreach near the end of Cold Days.  Because, if I am right, then Nemesis got to Justine while she was under Lara's protection.  Justine would have been on the grounds of House Raith or at Thomas' apartment most of that time.  Here's a possible explanation how it could have happened.  Maybe it happened when she did her secret agent thing offscreen before the start of Even Hand.  I believe she infiltrated a Fomor base.  She would have been vulnerable then.  Maybe she wasn't successful and was captured but Nemesis was present in someone or something else and saw an opportunity in Justine by making it look like she had succeeded.  It would explain her demeanor with Marcone.  I haven't reread that story in a long time, but I recall that Justine came across as very calculating in her decisions and actions.  Perhaps Justine had told Harry the truth in White Night when she said medication had made her a more stable person.

What else can you think of that we know or can reasonably guess about Nemesis?  I suspect there is at least one other character who is nemfected.  Is there anyone else you think could be a Nemesis agent? 




15
DF Spoilers / Re: Who called up the Cornerhounds?
« on: October 23, 2023, 01:00:55 AM »
I disagree on the timing of when Justine was infected by Nemesis.  If fact, I'm going to start a separate thread on this topic.

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