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Messages - Wicked Woodpecker of West

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166
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This one sounds like a continuity error to me, but there are a number of instances in many of the novels of discrepancies that I ascribe to the story being told across multiple Dresden universes.  The story is happening with all the major events playing out the same way within each universe, but with minor changes in past events changing things very slightly here and there.

So in Peace Talks Harry says the wooden skull Bonea resides in was made for her, when in fact it was originally made for Bob.  The Brighter Future Society changes names to Better Future Society and then back again.  In at least one of the worlds with a Better Future Society, Harry says he had never been to Marcone’s castle in the flesh before Peace Talks, but he had gone there in Skin Game.  This was probably because in a different Dresdenverse the meeting between Marcone and Mab that took place in Skin Game occurred at a different Marcone property or possibly at Mac’s or even Arctis Tor.  It doesn’t matter where that meeting took place, as long as it wasn’t at the castle and it was a place that Harry could discover and go to.

Now, either this is matter of Jim not being careful enough - which is always a chance, or maybe purposefuly Dresden memory not being good enough, and struggling a big.

But if your're right and that's like purposeful multiverse creation by Butcher - this books will enormously grew in my mind - maybe not in terms of enjoyement perhaps as I'm usually not fan of multiverses as they sort of cheapens weight of both free will and destiny in my mind - but most definitely in terms of WOAH Jim pulled this thing of on purpose.

But... untile proven otherwise I will go with simple bit sloppy Butchering ;)


167
DF Spoilers / Re: New questions that come from PT and BF
« on: November 04, 2020, 01:13:02 PM »
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I believe that she knows this and is keeping her enemies close, and she still has payback to Namshield for attaching her home

Dunno, it seems in Battle Ground she get what's going on with Marcone only after Dresden outed him as Sir Baron.

168
DF Spoilers / Re: MURPHYS [BG Spoilers]
« on: November 04, 2020, 01:08:03 PM »
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They don't get to comeback to earth as Einherjar soldiers until their memory is lost to everyone who knew them.  So if Harry lived another 400 years and out lived every other mortal in the story who knew Murphy, not until at least 400 years and a day have passed.

Now that's of course if Harry will remain mortal - I think immortals memories doesn't count in this regard, otherwise damn Murphy is more screwed than any Einherjar soldier ever ;)

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That is one interpretation. The other is that Murphy’s soul is exactly were it should be and this is what’s next for her. She will be raised again every time she dies and feast again. She chose for that when she decided to fight and die as a Viking warrior and maybe Vadderung had negotiated with Uriel about her.

That seems hardly a matter. I mean Einhernjar soldiers and Odin are doomed. Ragnarok coming always in their perspective.
Immortal does not mean eternal.

Not to mention - Valhalla and Odin, are not really this kind of warrior attitude Murphy showed in live. She was stubborn protector, a cop, a guardian. They are berserkers loving war for war itself, chosen for no other moral virtue but combat valor - so I mean there are really really shitty guys in Valhalla - and they live again (remember they are called mortal warriors - even if they are ressurected they are still well humans fundamentally) to train for oncoming Ragnarok. Like Odin sell their services to Marcone. How well do you think Murphy would react to be sold to some cyberpunk fae Marcone in 2277, huh?

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Just like other souls end up in Hades. Not that many anymore but they do. I do not get the impression that hades is a limited stay so why would walhalla be one? Is this Christian exceptionalism?

It sort of is. Pagan gods are beings of multiple level of magnitude beneath Uriel and his brothers.
Most of them were sacked by Creator according to WOJ and forbidden to interfere with both mortal and Nevernever affairs. More are rambling around as immortal rock-stars and wrestlers, Odin choose mortality so he can keep being involved and then he gain it again, because well he was powerful wizard with God's knowledge so he knew well how to do it again, and took a risk, Hades is basically locked in his Underworld and unable to do much.

Another thing is - whether spirits coming to Hades were even real souls or more like spirits.
Those we met in Underworld were more like shades, than whatever Dresden was as a walking soul.


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She would have made a great Knight of the Cross.

Murphy proved very well - she would be shitty Knight of the Cross.
Her INDEPENDENCE SYNDROM stopped her from being effective tool of Divine Providence (at least effective willing tool - as her failures were still used in a way to make Sword of Faith stronger) - and that's what knight is. Maybe not a saint, maybe not a believer, but he puts his fate in hands of providence to be guided, where he's needed. And Murphy rejected that. She rejected playing by God's rules.


Ironically she ended up - probably against her will - as Odin's soldier to be rented to some Marcone 2.0. (or maybe even Marcone 1.0 as he may not count as mortal anymore) in far future :P

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It was a story choice.  If Murphy didn't get anything it was because Jim didn't want her to as a character.  And this is true for every female character in the story. It's a shame really.

Well yes, but also her stance about Swords is absolutely consistent with her character as shown by multiple books.
Otherwise those books can be just whatever bonanza with zero consistence.

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You knew at the outset when they had sex that she was doomed.  I would guess Mab is as well.

TBH I get more "she's going to do vibe" - when Dresden get too moral to seal the deal before. XD

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It could have well been written another way. She could have went to heaven.  Which given her Catholicism would seemed to have been a better choice. Or she could have joined the Librarians in DC. He wanted her dead and out of the way for this arc with Lara.

Considering all her live and especially stance for swords, her Catholicism seems to me as lil more than Irish cultural thing and convinient excuse to avoid unwanted valkyrie's sexual advances.

Also consider this - heaven is permanent. You never come back.
It's afterlife by capital A. and capital FTERLIFE.

But pagan gods and their domains are not eternal in this world - and Valhalla is especially like holding a big green neon sign saying NOT PERMANENT. It's doomed. Odin is doomed. Einhernjaren is doomed.
I mean let's say - what are the chances Big Apocalyptic Triology shall not include Ragnarok. I count them about 0,66%.

Which also means Murphy is in quite good place to fight in BAT as revenant supersoldier.

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But the surviving gods and men will repopulate a beautiful new world. It is not just about destruction, it is also about rebirth.

Well but that does not counts Odin or Einhenjaren - those are goners.
And considering all other Nordic Gods were sacked from their jobs by THE CREATOR according to WOJ, I think well they can help repopulate by breedings scions on Earth, because that's about as far as they can go I guess XD

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The real apocalypse was something people were looking forward to. It says something about how happy they were.

The Christian Apocalypse - yes, but it's term used rather more popculturally in Dresden Files - neither of apocalyptic scenarios here is like Second Coming - more like Outsiders Invasion of reality.


169
DF Spoilers / Re: Mab and Lara
« on: November 04, 2020, 12:10:19 AM »
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beyond the obvious lack of the ability to feed.

But whampires does not have to... consume their relationships with victims. They can just cause surge of overwhelming suitable emotion and just syphon life energy in such form from victim, without even undressing.

170
DF Spoilers / Re: When did LtW join the White Council?
« on: November 03, 2020, 11:39:40 PM »
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I don't know why he would choose Mesoamerican instead of something more European. I always assumed it was something his master taught him. This would imply, at least a little bit, that his teacher was indigenous.

It is quite important than words and symbols used by wizard are not his vernacular. They do not hold like gnostic value in doing magic, they do not represent some angelic language or smth like in real-world occultism - they are foci for wizards mind.
If Carlos is from L.A. he could use some native Mexican symbolism for his spells.

171
DF Spoilers / Re: Things you wish Harry said or did in PT / BG
« on: November 03, 2020, 11:35:02 PM »
Whole point with being a Knight is sort of you agree of being a tool of Divine Providence. You don't have to faithful, you don't have to be saint.
But you agree to serve something higher than you.

And Murphy was not willing to do it, because she was strong and independent, and frankly her Catholicism was mostly an excuse to avoid unwanted threesomes offers from valkyries :P

172
DF Spoilers / Re: Magical Theory
« on: November 03, 2020, 06:26:10 PM »
I'd say that classical occult/magical theories usually were way more ritualistic than TDF magic - which is more like sort of psionic/energy manipulation when ritual serve only to sort of help concentration so you won't nuke own brain by using energies of creation.
That is sort of closer to fake ritualism of Mage the Ascencion - when it's just veil for brain (although in TDF it's much more objective - necessary tools to do magic safely and precisely), or maybe using Winds of Magic in Warhammer, than with proper occultism.

173
DF Spoilers / Re: Anyone else... disappointed? [PT/BG spoilers]
« on: October 26, 2020, 12:12:51 PM »
I agree that Butters probably is more suitable to speak about Murphy than Michael, overall.
In terms of his Lightsaber - I really liked it in Skin Game as a revelation (though me personally would keep like two books of a gap between destruction of Sword and it's being remade - but I'm a cruel man) - but I do not like how Butcher went to be competent fighter with a blade that should be really unwieldy (Butcher seems to suggest it's easier to use weightless blade - which is bullshit - weight as long as it's well balanced it's great indicator of position for muscular memory - using something that is physically not there is not easy thing - just as using real lightsabers would be hard for human), and without good sources to learn how to use it.

Which brings me to my overall position - there should be extra book between Skin Game and Peace Talks - possibly dealing with Fomor and giving prelude to Peace Talks, but also allowing Butters to train really really hard, or for Murphy to get to cope with her disability seriously - rather than rushing into battle despite them and get killed right away.

It would be even better without Star Wars quotes at all :P

174
DF Spoilers / Re: The Next Book's Title
« on: October 26, 2020, 10:58:12 AM »
Tulpa!Harry conjured by conjuritis and reality disruption would be one of methods to kill Rudolph I'd not be opposed of.

Or even better Dresden having to save Rudolph from tulpa :3
Salt those wounds Jim, salt them.

And then when Dresden is kidnapped by Mirror!Harry - Harry at first is like - WTF again!

175
DF Spoilers / Re: "The Center Cannot Hold" > "Empty Night"
« on: October 26, 2020, 10:21:43 AM »
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I'm not so sure. The last bit of SF really felt like it was a well established Harry telling his story. At least to me.

I don't think so. It was very connected to his low-life spook-P.I. aspect, and too event just between SF an FM.
I see no strong foreshadowing except - things are getting worse, which is very very vague.

And really I hope Dresden Files do not exist in DF-verse as some diaries or confessions.

176
DF Spoilers / Re: Poor Harry - Jim you cruel man. Lol
« on: October 26, 2020, 10:11:36 AM »
Well, Harry is  :).
I hope you are right, WWW. I don't care if it is cheesy, I like it.

I mean I doubt Butcher would develop Dresden / Archive friendship to just sort of dissolve it into - she's angry on him for killing himself stuff

177
DF Spoilers / Re: [PT/BG SPOILERS] Beings from the Outside
« on: October 26, 2020, 10:03:28 AM »
Also you can break through leaving some of your power - but then hey - you can still be enough to kill everyone inside.

178
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when Harry had an epiphany that the Black Court of vampires has a connection with the Outsiders, instead of wondering what that connection might be, I started thinking about the other vampire courts.

Could you quote this part about Black Court. I cannot remember it.

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The Red King was the progenitor of the Red Court, but what created him?

My bet is - Red King started as a result of some ancient wizard experiments with something like hexenwofs but linked to bat-vampire bestialic aspect rather than wolf. Some fort of mix of ancient totemism and shapeshifting with demon, not necessary Outsiders cult. Then he was able to pass this demon through infection, just like WC pass their demons to their children. Sort of like permanently active hexenbelt in your blood.

But then of course Red Court summoned Outsiders to fight White Council so...

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A purpose so important that it was worth gifting them with the monstrous tendencies their demon gives them.  I think they were meant to keep the other vampire courts in check, back when mortals had only a very limited ability to do this themselves.  So it might be possible that Lara could be redeemed, though I'm not betting on that happening.

Dunno. Overall they seem to be too corrupted as whole,  with too little of them redeemable.
Not to mention - Black Court is rather way younger (Dracula founded them), only Reds from mayor ones had as ancient origin like Whites, maybe even older.

So doubt. I think White Court is what is it - someone once made a bad mistake of cursing someone with generational curse or linking demon to own bloodline and it went from there. I think in the end it's quite simple pattern. And even naagloshii considered Lara as a mere phage.






179
DF Spoilers / Re: Rudy under a.. BG spoilers imminent.
« on: October 25, 2020, 03:02:09 PM »
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what like fearbringer lol? Or so you mean  of have a human host, like Justine?

Yesssss.
And I'd totally be for HWWBeside not being able to posses people totally, but slowly corrupting their very nature beyond choices of free will. Allowing Sidhe to lie, allowing Vampires to stand against true Faith and so on. But not necessarily full on curling mustache moments.
As much as I like He Who Walks Beside speech - it's kinda cheesy and this modus operandi seems to be bit redundant.

180
DF Spoilers / Re: Rudy under a.. BG spoilers imminent.
« on: October 25, 2020, 12:04:02 PM »
I think walkers shouldn't really represent anything human.

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