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Messages - Second Aristh

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106
DF Spoilers / Re: A Way to Demonreach
« on: September 01, 2021, 03:19:47 AM »
Considering that it might be a while before the Water Beetle is back in action, the Way to Demonreach could very well be an option that Harry explores in the relative near future.

Either way, I think popularizing the Way to get to the island will be something that Harry will prefer to avoid even if you ignore the dangers of going that way.

107
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: September 01, 2021, 02:38:09 AM »
What is interesting though is Alfred.  He says in Skin Game page 5 after  Harry had just called him Alfred for the first time.

So what is Alfred trying to say?  Either he doesn't understand what a genius loci is, or he is
something else.  When he says he is a vessel, does he mean as I suspect that perhaps he is the well from which all that dark power emanates as a ley line?
Probably most genus loci are not all that self aware.  They don't think in language as we know it.  Before Harry mentions it, it doesn't occur to the genus loci that there is a distinction between itself and the prison.

Harry is doing for Alfred what he did for Bob and personifying him (likely giving out a sliver of free will in the process; Uriel was right about mortals throwing Names around).

108
DF Spoilers / Re: Lashiel's distorted messages
« on: September 01, 2021, 02:31:04 AM »
Oh and one more thing, reading the whole chapter, there was no island before Merlin built it, five times in five different time zones, dimensions, and all at the same time...
There was no prison before OG Merlin built it, but the island is not the exact same as the prison.  Merlin had somewhere to stand while making the prison.  Beyond that, the genus loci probably also existed in some much more limited form, hence the ice age injury from the glacier.

109
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: September 01, 2021, 02:26:56 AM »
The attack itself does only one thing.  It keeps Mab from attacking the Reds. From an old WOJ.To answer the question why did Mab have Molly brought to Arctis Tor you need only look at the text. It brings all the remaining players to the church were Harry can make the connections he needs to make. The act coalesces his thought process to produce enough of the truth to realize that Molly is the one doing Black Magic. This solves Rashid's mystery

The secondary effect is to show Harry why Mab did not attack.  This is the answer to Eb's question. Somebody with enough power to throw hellfire at the heart of Winter has attacked the Fortress.  With the butterfly Harry is able to cast fire and kill the Scarecrow but the attacker killed hundreds of Mab's elite guard.

@Second Aristh
I gave it to you that way because it would be a fairly long dissertation if I hadn't. For instance here is the chain for the attacks by the fetches. While there still are mysteries in Proven Guilty the primary questions posed by Jim are answered in the text.  By the end of the arc in Cold Days the rest have been mostly revealed. You know for instance that Rashid works for Mab and that he has the eye.  Making Mab the source of the warning.  The events around LC are more complex.  Why did Jim break it for instance? And why did Lash blow hot and cold.  Was the accident an illusion fostered by Lash?  If it was sabotage, why? Who was Sandra Marling? Why was the first trial held in Chicago?
(click to show/hide)
I don't buy that the Arctis Tor attack alone was what kept Mab from retaliating against the Reds.  Mab won that battle, whatever it was, and she could have called in her reinforcements from the border in moments.

As far as Mab sending a fetch against Pell initially, faerie queens can't just go and order an underling to kill an unaffiliated mortal.  That has to fall to a knight. 

Idk, there's lots of little things like that that don't add up in PG.  I think that the time travel book will definitely spend some time in the background helping to give answers that we're missing.  Future!Harry giving Rashid the message to send to him (probably involving Mab and helping initiate her end of the plot and letting her know that Harry would someday be her knight where she can make definitive statements without lying), him causing the car wreck in the beginning for whatever reason, LC issues being resolved.  That kind of stuff.

110
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:08:35 PM »
Could be, so if that is true then the island existed before Merlin decided to turn it into a prison for evil monsters and gods.
Yep.  Hard to build a prison when there’s nowhere to stand.  ;D

111
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 06:21:44 AM »
Go for it. I just reread the passage like last week. It’s their meeting at the shedd before the archive kidnapping.

112
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 06:13:54 AM »
Harry was snarking off, but he decided to keep his mouth shut for once. Harry makes an inner monologue comment about behaving. Plus Anduriel doesn’t care that Harry isn’t an it.

113
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 05:41:54 AM »
certainly possible. Though I also wonder if, to trap part of it, you can't more or less "kill" it as far as that's possible, or use the connection to lock down every host/piece of Nemesis via Thaumaturgy. The kill part I wonder about because of what Nic said when Harry was telling him this, about it having a sense of self preservation. Preservation wouldn't be the right word if it wasn't under some real sort of threat.
Though, I'm sure she had to rub against Lea's consciousness to help her fight nemesis, so I do see that as a possibility.
Anduriel was making a comment about Harry keeping his mouth shut when talking about self preservation.

114
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 04:56:41 AM »
Maybe not.  Maybe once the process of removing Nemesis has been started, it cannot be halted, or she risks Nemesis entering her mind.
I kinda doubt it, but it's possible.  Mab's "cure" seems to be more like a mental wall of ice blocking Nemesis from entering whatever backdoor it made in Lea's mind.

As a different thought along those lines, perhaps Mab made a masterful counterstroke with Lea.  If Nemesis has a finite amount of hosts it can bounce between, keeping Lea alive but unable to be controlled might deprive Nemesis of a host body it could otherwise have.  Say the Arctis Tor attack was an assassination on Lea gone wrong.  With Lea on ice, Mab should have been at the Outer Gates.  Perfect time to make a ballsy move in her empty palace.  Except, nope there she is.  Time to leave as quickly as possible?  Mab might have chased them, but they're not big enough fish to deserve her personal attention.  Especially if it might have been a feint and more attackers would sneak in with Arctis Tor actually empty.

That kind of idea would have the right caliber of enemy to kill Lea (hence burn Arctis Tor) but not worry Mab.

115
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 04:22:50 AM »
Here is a theory.  What if Mab needed her full focus to isolate Nemesis in Leah, leaving her vulnerable.  Nemesis knowing this directed It's forces to launch the attack in an attempt to force Mab, at a critical moment, to lose her focus.
Possible, but then Mab can cut her losses and kill Lea.  She did it with Maeve.

116
DF Spoilers / Re: Demonreach, Ley lines, and Harry's connection
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:32:00 AM »
Yup, and that is part of the reason why it doesn't show up on maps.  I do remember a reference to the ice ages and the island, but am not sure if it is in the books or it is a WOJ.  The connection has to do with why Alfred has a limp if I remember correctly.
The ice age glacier gave Alfred his limp, not the Gatekeeper.  You might be thinking of that WoJ.  The genus loci likely existed before the prison was constructed, so it's not clear that OG Merlin went that far back in time.

117
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:31:09 AM »
Who hits Mab and lives to tell the tale??  Apparently the ones who hit there.  They had to be heavy hitters.  Ok at a minimum, who do you think could have pulled it off?  Gone to the heart of Winter, hit a location where Mab was, and not get obliterated?
I think it's more complicated than that.  There's a contradiction: it has to be a group tough enough that they can do that kind of damage in the heart of Winter.  At the same time, they have to be weak enough that Mab didn't feel like there was any real danger for her interests (otherwise call in reinforcements).  WoJ says that Wild Hunt + Erlking + Namshiel would be iffy about Mab even needing to make an effort to stop them.

Altogether, it makes it seem like Mab made a judgement call and showed restraint towards the attackers for an unknown reason.  Harry didn't notice any enemy bodies Mab left behind, but her guards were all killed.  In the end, the attack doesn't seem to have met its objective either.  Mab still has Lea on ice (if that was even the goal at all).

118
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:22:52 AM »
Don't read this if you don't want a half ass WAG. And it is just that.
(click to show/hide)
The WAG would be easier to follow if it was explicit instead of a series of innuendos.  This is a spoiler section full of people that have read the series several times over.

119
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:11:31 AM »
The fire was so hot that Harry said he couldn't have done it with Hellfire.  There were skeletons everywhere, indicating a lot of death.  I believe Dresden called them Mab's personal guard.  In other words, badasses.  Mab wouldn't have wimps for protection.
Lots of death, but no call out for reinforcements and they leave without getting to Lea.  That says more that the mook bodyguards got sacrificed for whatever reason than Arctis Tor was in danger of falling.

120
DF Spoilers / Re: Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:03:45 AM »
That's the thing.  We saw what Mab was capable of in Battle Ground.  Mab was at the heart of Winter, in her fortress, and her forces got demolished.  It doesn't appear the attackers were successful, but they got pretty darn close.  There had to have been some extremely heavy hitters there.  I'd like to know who they were.
Troll bodyguards got killed, but "demolished" might be an overstatement.
Quote from: Excerpt from a larger WoJ
But to correct some minor stuff:  the fetches aren’t even /close/ to her strongest servitors.  They’re her couriers, harassers, spies and occasional assassins.  Captain Kudzu was a being that was deemed more-or-less sufficient on the badassometer, but nothing to write home about.  The fetches main use, to Mab, isn’t as battlefield thugs.  She’s got /plenty/ of other things for that.  Another mild correction:  who says Mab /lost/ the battle at Arctis Tor, before Harry and Company arrived?  At the end of the day, the Winter Queen was still in her fortress–but you didn’t see anyone standing around assaulting the place, did ya. :)  Also, it has probably occurred to more than one of you that if Mab was /really/ in trouble, she could have had the entire military might of Faerie back at the fortress in moments–exactly the way they *did* come back when Harry smacked the Winter Well with the fires of Summer.

Edit:
Balance that with
Quote
    The Wild Hunt lead by a couple of Denarians such at Thorned Namshiel, The Erlking and a bunch of Outsiders could get the job done. That would have been a fight to see (from a distance).

Nah, they wouldn’t even come close.  I mean… it’s like comparing apples and… and hand grenades.

Just about the best they could hope to accomplish would be to force Mab to make an effort.  Though when Mab came for them, it wouldn’t be a kick-down-the-door-and-kick-ass kind of encounter.  It would be a One-two-three-four-five-Hey-weren’t-there-SIX-of-us-here-a-second-ago? situation.

I mean, sure, the Erlking is a peer of Mab’s–but there’s kind of a reason that it’s /Mab/ who rules the Worst of the Worst in Faerie, and not the Erlking.

All of which doesn’t even TOUCH on the way power is actually balanced in Faerie, because neither Mab nor the Erlking would attempt such a thing, or /consider/ attempting such a thing.  It would upset the natural order.  Conflicts between most of the Fae powers are very subtle, and generally involve proxies, pride, sex or all of the above. :)

Harry (or Molly or Murphy or Butters or any other mortal) has more potential to harm Mab than that crew.  Not much more likelihood of victory, true, but it isn’t /zero/, either.

Jim


I agree that more information would be better.  It's a confusing scene, and I don't think we have enough clues to make a great guess yet.

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