ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: wardenferry419 on November 14, 2017, 11:20:29 AM
-
I am sure that there will be more short stories, the Maggie at school stuff, and comic books. Maybe, hopefully, another RPG update someday. So, a place holder.
-
I'm personally hoping for a video game adaptation that doesn't suck. Maybe something like Baldur's Gate, but in Chicago and with preset characters.
-
I woulds like to see a pre-BAT update to rpg.
-
Are you guys this into other authors? There are some people here who seem to spend a huge amount of time thinking about this series. I think there are even people who write fan fiction for the series? And, one person who writes stories with this series as a template?
Is it just Butcher that you’re so into, or are there other authors on whose works you spend a lot of time?
What’s the appeal of this series that induces the deep interest?
-
This forum is small community of various individuals that share at least one bit of commonality, an appreciation for Jim Butcher's work. Though, we do so in different ways. I, myself, fixate on the unsolved mysteries of the series; others have their own interests. We share what we think and what we like while being receptive to what others think and like about the works.
I cannot speak for others; but, I often develop strong attachments to other fictional works. I love early Stephen King, I have read a large number of Dragonlance books, and I have been a comic book fan for over 30 years. Do I visit forums related to these works? Nope. Why? Because I do not get the same communal feeling that I get here. In the series, the first time that Harry walked into Mac's bar, he felt as if he had rediscovered an old home. My feelings are similar to that feeling.
If you don't get "the appeal of this series that induces the great interest;" then why visit the forums? I am here because I get the appeal. I think that many other members do as well. But, hey, the ratio of male members to female members is 29 to 1 or so the statistic center states. So, "maybe it is a guy thing?" Though, the person with the most posts here is female. So, I could be mistaken. I often am mistaken; but, I still keep trying to make sense of things. Did this help?
-
This forum is small community of various individuals that share at least one bit of commonality, an appreciation for Jim Butcher's work. Though, we do so in different ways. I, myself, fixate on the unsolved mysteries of the series; others have their own interests. We share what we think and what we like while being receptive to what others think and like about the works.
I cannot speak for others; but, I often develop strong attachments to other fictional works. I love early Stephen King, I have read a large number of Dragonlance books, and I have been a comic book fan for over 30 years. Do I visit forums related to these works? Nope. Why? Because I do not get the same communal feeling that I get here. In the series, the first time that Harry walked into Mac's bar, he felt as if he had rediscovered an old home. My feelings are similar to that feeling.
If you don't get "the appeal of this series that induces the great interest;" then why visit the forums? I am here because I get the appeal. I think that many other members do as well. But, hey, the ratio of male members to female members is 29 to 1 or so the statistic center states. So, "maybe it is a guy thing?" Though, the person with the most posts here is female. So, I could be mistaken. I often am mistaken; but, I still keep trying to make sense of things. Did this help?
Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I was just curious if this was a main focus for the people really into it or if they were likewise into a lot of different stuff.
I post here mainly when I have insomnia. you might notice my posts are mainly in the middle of the night (EU time). My husband snores LOUDLY and incessantly at various times and I cannot sleep well then. So, I read stuff on the iPad in bed. Probably 99% of my posts are from an iPad while in bed wishing I could sleep, so be impressed with my iPad typing skills! :P
I 'nerd' a few different things with my free time. I loved the new Twin Peaks season (raidem, if you like overlapping timelines, alternate realities converging, and bizarre causal loops, you will love this series and the film, Fire Walk With Me). I also currently enjoy the new Star Trek serial. I listen to and read various stuff about philosophy and neuroscience these days. I am planning my Jul (like christmas, but more pagan) dinner plans for the family as I cook a huge dinner each year and reading a lot of recipes always trying to get new ideas. Also, I listen to a lot of music of the dark electro, cold wave types.
So, posting here is sort of a 3.00am enterprise for me. :D I haven't read the books in a couple of years now. I am not interested in Butcher's comic books, children's serials or the new serial (read the first one and the writing was so bad that I thought it was meant to be his book for children). Hopefully, I'll enjoy the new book in the DF serial when it arrives.
-
For me, I love long series with multi-book character arcs and plots. Thats partly why I like the DF and go back again and again to read more. I also like Terry Brooks Sword of Truth series for instance. I come here because I like to discuss theories and find the nuggets that I've missed. I continue to participate here because the series is still ongoing and there are new works to discuss and since there is no end yet all theories/WAGs are (mostly) valid. That is why I do not visit the fan boards of other book series I like. You can find all the nuggets you missed, but the theories and discussion is more limited because the author has provided the end of the series.
-
Did we ever have a confirm whether the WoJ about doing a book where Harry was in prison and one where he wakes up in a mental institution in a setting where his magic is treated as having always been a delusion were real plans or Jim joking around ?
-
This forum is small community of various individuals that share at least one bit of commonality, an appreciation for Jim Butcher's work. Though, we do so in different ways. I, myself, fixate on the unsolved mysteries of the series; others have their own interests.
That's the fun part for me. Though I hope Jim will end up attaching more story significance to resolving at least most of the running mysteries than some other series have. (Like the 'Who killed Asmodean?' one in Wheel of Time that ran for like eight books and ended up mattering so little it got a throwaway dialogue line and an appendix mention)
-
Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I was just curious if this was a main focus for the people really into it or if they were likewise into a lot of different stuff.
I post here mainly when I have insomnia. you might notice my posts are mainly in the middle of the night (EU time). My husband snores LOUDLY and incessantly at various times and I cannot sleep well then. So, I read stuff on the iPad in bed. Probably 99% of my posts are from an iPad while in bed wishing I could sleep, so be impressed with my iPad typing skills! :P
I 'nerd' a few different things with my free time. I loved the new Twin Peaks season (raidem, if you like overlapping timelines, alternate realities converging, and bizarre causal loops, you will love this series and the film, Fire Walk With Me). I also currently enjoy the new Star Trek serial. I listen to and read various stuff about philosophy and neuroscience these days. I am planning my Jul (like christmas, but more pagan) dinner plans for the family as I cook a huge dinner each year and reading a lot of recipes always trying to get new ideas. Also, I listen to a lot of music of the dark electro, cold wave types.
So, posting here is sort of a 3.00am enterprise for me. :D I haven't read the books in a couple of years now. I am not interested in Butcher's comic books, children's serials or the new serial (read the first one and the writing was so bad that I thought it was meant to be his book for children). Hopefully, I'll enjoy the new book in the DF serial when it arrives.
They have philosophy and pop culture books that are often entertaining.
-
I remember a few years back, around the time the last book came out, there was talk of someone picking up the recently re-acquired film rights. And there was mention of a producer involved in a movie being released around the time, either Maleficent or XM:DoFP, being interested.
I'm assuming at this point that nothing developed. But I'll confess to a small kernel of hope that there's something on the horizon.
-
Maybe, someday there will be.
-
I remember a few years back, around the time the last book came out, there was talk of someone picking up the recently re-acquired film rights. And there was mention of a producer involved in a movie being released around the time, either Maleficent or XM:DoFP, being interested.
I'm assuming at this point that nothing developed. But I'll confess to a small kernel of hope that there's something on the horizon.
The only film I ever saw that was better than the book was Lord of the Flies from the 1950s (I think there was a poorly done more recent version, too).
The worst book to film adaption I’ve ever seen was Catch 22. The film makers really missed the whole point of the book and made a stupid comedy.
-
I can agree that a movie rarely outshines the book it is bases on. Though, sometimes a movie outdoes a short story. Two that come to mind are Shawshank Redemption and Breakfast at Tiffany's.
-
I would love to see Harry on the big screen, but I do not think it would be to the book standard. A lot of people point to the Harry Potter series as an example of a book to movie adaptation that was done well (for the most part). However, that was a unique example as the main actors were able to age with the movies. A direct book to screen adaptation would be hard due to the large number of books. More likely than not, if they wanted to adapt the current storyline, they would cut books out entirely or combine books together in one film. Alternatively, they could create brand new stories for Dresden and set it in an "alternate universe" to the main stories (my preferred method). I would also love to see an animated Dresden ala The Last Airbender.
-
Are you guys this into other authors? There are some people here who seem to spend a huge amount of time thinking about this series. I think there are even people who write fan fiction for the series? And, one person who writes stories with this series as a template?
Is it just Butcher that you’re so into, or are there other authors on whose works you spend a lot of time?
What’s the appeal of this series that induces the deep interest?
I came to the site to check when the next book was going to be released, saw there was an official forum, and discovered it is fun to theorize with others. I haven't found official forums for other authors I've read that are mid-series. Otherwise, there might be a few sites I post on.
-
Is it just Butcher that you’re so into, or are there other authors on whose works you spend a lot of time?
Back in the 90s when the bits of Usenet that discussed written SF were still viable, I spent this scale of time and energy on lots of my favourite authors.
-
The only film I ever saw that was better than the book was Lord of the Flies from the 1950s (I think there was a poorly done more recent version, too).
There are a fair few films of books that manage to be better than the books because the films are quite good and the books were terrible; Angel Heart and The Hunger spring to mind.
And there are unique examples like The Princess Bride and 2001 where through various combinations of genius in both media the books and films are both brilliant and different in ways that make it kind of impossible to judge.
-
I would love to see Harry on the big screen, but I do not think it would be to the book standard. A lot of people point to the Harry Potter series as an example of a book to movie adaptation that was done well (for the most part). However, that was a unique example as the main actors were able to age with the movies. A direct book to screen adaptation would be hard due to the large number of books. More likely than not, if they wanted to adapt the current storyline, they would cut books out entirely or combine books together in one film. Alternatively, they could create brand new stories for Dresden and set it in an "alternate universe" to the main stories (my preferred method). I would also love to see an animated Dresden ala The Last Airbender.
I like the way they're adapting the Series of Unfortunate Events books on Netflix. Two episodes per book, eight episodes per season. It could be done similarly with Dresden. Maybe two episodes per book, with three episodes as a finale per season; Summer Knight deserves three episodes, for instance. So would Proven Guilty.
However, I'd like them to wait for Jim to get back to a more regular publishing schedule first, because I'd prefer that the books finish before the series outpaces it. I don't want another Game of Thrones.
There are a fair few films of books that manage to be better than the books because the films are quite good and the books were terrible; Angel Heart and The Hunger spring to mind.
And there are unique examples like The Princess Bride and 2001 where through various combinations of genius in both media the books and films are both brilliant and different in ways that make it kind of impossible to judge.
Yeah. I liked a very few movies better than the books: I Am Number Four, Secret Window, Stand By Me (mostly), Psycho, the Godfather, Jaws, Fight Club (which I found tedious to read), and No Country for Old Men (because punctuation matters, damn it, no matter what they say about style). I hate what they did to Harry Potter after the third movie, and I usually walk out of the theater pissed that they messed with a perfectly good story.
-
I would love to see Harry on the big screen, but I do not think it would be to the book standard. A lot of people point to the Harry Potter series as an example of a book to movie adaptation that was done well (for the most part). However, that was a unique example as the main actors were able to age with the movies. A direct book to screen adaptation would be hard due to the large number of books. More likely than not, if they wanted to adapt the current storyline, they would cut books out entirely or combine books together in one film. Alternatively, they could create brand new stories for Dresden and set it in an "alternate universe" to the main stories (my preferred method). I would also love to see an animated Dresden ala The Last Airbender.
Are you hinting at the fifth movie? Then, I agree.
-
Are you hinting at the fifth movie? Then, I agree.
I try to be careful and avoid jumping down the rabbit hole, but IMO the flaws start to build as the movie series progress.
-
Yeah, Angry Dumbledore didn't appeal to me either.
-
Yeah, Angry Dumbledore didn't appeal to me either.
Specifically, Dumbledore angry at Harry, of all people.
-
Specifically, Dumbledore angry at Harry, of all people.
Dumbledore character changes were an issue as well as Ginny's character (or lack thereof) in the movies.
-
Yeah, movie Ginny was very subdued compared to book Ginny.
-
Dumbledore character changes were an issue as well as Ginny's character (or lack thereof) in the movies.
There were... a lot of problems, those among them. The changes and cuts to the existing plot were inexpertly done on a volume-by-volume basis, rather than for the film series as a whole, which created a whole lot of problems for those who just wanted to watch the movies. The plot does not make much sense if you haven't read the books because so many things were left out; I got the sense that each entry was written and shot based on adapting that specific entry without considering the larger context, for the most part. Some of the problems that created were attributable to working on a series as the books were being written, but some of them were pretty blatant. My sister watched the series over a weekend when she was sick, and hadn't read the books. After watching it twice to make sure she wasn't just missing stuff, she started asking me questions, like "Who the hell is Padfoot? Where did Dumbledore get those Horcruxes? I guess Harry can just Sense Horcruxes, but how does he know what some of them look like?" and so on. She thought it was all badly written, and I found myself referring to the books because the expository scenes simply weren't in the movies.
That doesn't even touch the problems with the books, but that's a different ball of wax.
I just hope that the Dresden Files is eventually adapted into some kind of live action format, faithfully, with a fanboy director who won't want to mess with the story (and honestly, the books are short enough that there's really no reason or excuse to leave stuff out or change much).
-
What about a Sherlock (BBC) style series with 3 to 4 90 minute episodes a season. Each season equates to one book.
-
Ananda,
I'm here for the people. This is a GREAT group of fans.
I stay for the theories and the fun banter.
-
What about a Sherlock (BBC) style series with 3 to 4 90 minute episodes a season. Each season equates to one book.
I'd want a bit more, like they're doing with A Series of Unfortunate Events. The Sherlock season structure gives them a lot of trouble during production (or at least a lot of excuses to avoid doing one season per year), and I'd prefer it if they would release stuff annually.
Plus, to be honest, 270-360 minutes is way too long for, say, Fool Moon. There's a lot to be said for taking the time to do things right, but that's 1.5 minutes/page for the first few books. Not quite as egregious as The Hobbit becoming a trilogy, but close.
ASOUE does four books per season, two hour-long episodes per book. I'd like the same format for Dresden. They could do a ten-episode season and do a kind of clip show featuring the short stories that featured during that block of books, too.
-
I see your point about stretching the early books too far. Definitely do not want to end up with a hobbit situation.
-
The Hobbit trilogy was originally planned by Tolkin. He was working on a rewrite when he passed away.
I'd like them to take the first 7-8 books and storyboard the whole thing. Tell the story correctly and there could be books that span several episodes or only a couple. They don't HAVE to be independent episodes/seasons.
-
I'd like them to take the first 7-8 books and storyboard the whole thing. Tell the story correctly and there could be books that span several episodes or only a couple. They don't HAVE to be independent episodes/seasons.
That is the key in my opinion. Only do as many episodes as are needed for each book. Do not get locked into each book is x number of episodes or each "season" needs x number of episodes and has to cover x amount. That is how we end up with filler that is week or rushed stories that miss important character beats.
-
As far as short stories go, I would like to read the Hawaii story and something about Kincaid explaining to Ivy about shooting Harry.
-
As far as short stories go, I would like to read the Hawaii story and something about Kincaid explaining to Ivy about shooting Harry.
I can't wait for those two.
-
Would Ivy know? As far as we know nothing written every passed between Harry and Kincaid. As long as he did not leave a paper trail to Chicago (which I am sure he knows how to do) there is really no way for her to "know" outside of human intuition.
-
She might not know; but, she might wonder.
-
As far as short stories go, I would like to read the Hawaii story and something about Kincaid explaining to Ivy about shooting Harry.
I'd very much rather Hawaii was left a Noodle Incident, myself.
Also, I strongly suspect that a) Ivy getting kidnapped in SmF is a direct consequence of her developing a humanised personality (no point in the Denarians doing that before then because you can't torture information out of a filing cabinet) which appears to come about when and because Harry Names her (which creeps Kincaid out, a reaction I take very seriously) and b) that she is very likely to blame him for this, so Kincaid explaining to her about killing Harry may well get yelled at for not doing it well enough.
-
I know that Luccio suggested that it was bad to humanize the Archive. But, Ivy never got the chance for a life before her call to duty. Those that we attach ourselves to become, often, the main motivation in life.
-
I know that Luccio suggested that it was bad to humanize the Archive. But, Ivy never got the chance for a life before her call to duty.
Is her getting the chance for a life necessarily a net win ?
-
I would say. Prior archives had a life before duty as a buffer to mantle. What would happen if buffer was gone?
-
I would say. Prior archives had a life before duty as a buffer to mantle. What would happen if buffer was gone?
I suspect if that were a problem Nicodemus and company would have gone for her before, rather than after, Harry Named her.
I strongly suspect Ivy's grandmother's death was not an accident.
-
I have had that thought about Ivy's mom as well. Was Nico that knowledgeable about Harry's and Ivy's connection?
-
I have had that thought about Ivy's mom as well. Was Nico that knowledgeable about Harry's and Ivy's connection?
He just needs to know Harry will treat someone who looks like a kid as a kid, I think. To my mind Ivy having been Archive from birth is already in a unique situation, and I can quite by the vulnerabilities that come with that situation being part of Nicodemus' plan.
-
I can agree that the Archive at the present is both at most vulnerable due to its host and at its most powerful due to the buildup of power over time and the infomation age of computers.
BK5 steal holy relic and use it to cause a plague
BK10 Get a mantled being to take a coin
BK15 steal a more powerful holy relic
BK20? Use a data-connected mantled being to infect every internet and computer. Crash it and start a new dark age.
BK20 resolution. An adult Faith takes on Archive mantle.
-
I can agree that the Archive at the present is both at most vulnerable due to its host and at its most powerful due to the buildup of power over time and the infomation age of computers.
BK5 steal holy relic and use it to cause a plague
BK10 Get a mantled being to take a coin
BK15 steal a more powerful holy relic
BK20? Use a data-connected mantled being to infect every internet and computer. Crash it and start a new dark age.
BK20 resolution. An adult Faith takes on Archive mantle.
Personally, I reckon, that if Ivy dies without issue, a plausible next inheritor is the closest there is to an independent attempt to duplicate the Archive, that is, Bob.
-
Bonnie also meets that criteria.
-
Bonnie also meets that criteria.
How is Bonnie like the Archive ? It is specified that Kemmler made Bob specifically as an attempt to duplicate the Archive, at the end of SmF iirc.
-
I do not think that Bonnie would count because she was not created with the intention of duplicating the Archive. She is like the archive in the sense that she has a tremendous amount of knowledge being the offspring of a wizard and denarian copy. However, she was created naturally (through an act of love) instead of artificially as Bob is assumed to be (indicated by SmF like neuro said above).
-
He just needs to know Harry will treat someone who looks like a kid as a kid, I think. To my mind Ivy having been Archive from birth is already in a unique situation, and I can quite by the vulnerabilities that come with that situation being part of Nicodemus' plan.
We can assume Nicodemus spends quite some time monitoring people and if he is planning something with Harry and Ivy he will monitor them both.
-
How is Bonnie like the Archive ? It is specified that Kemmler made Bob specifically as an attempt to duplicate the Archive, at the end of SmF iirc.
Is it known for certain that the process that created Bob was not in any ways similar to the process that created Bonnie? Natural impregnation and in vitro fertilization both produce babies.They are both spirits of intellect and the Archive seems to be the transferable fusion of a spirit of intellect mantle onto a mortal host with a certain genetic similarity to its first host.
-
Is it known for certain that the process that created Bob was not in any ways similar to the process that created Bonnie? Natural impregnation and in vitro fertilization both produce babies.They are both spirits of intellect and the Archive seems to be the transferable fusion of a spirit of intellect mantle onto a mortal host with a certain genetic similarity to its first host.
The difference is that we have it in so many words that Bob was specifically built not just as a spirit of intellect but as an attempt at duplicating the Archive. Which leads me to believe that the chances of Bonnie being more like the Archive in the relevant ways (whatever they are) than Bob are low.
-
On a related topic, does anyone else think that Lydia, and by extension, everyone with the Cassandra's Tears affliction, may have been other children of the Archive, the ones who don't inherit it? Like, the second-born daughters. The connection of the Archive to the Pythia and prophets is pointed out a bit too much for me to not think they're related in some way.
Anyway, maybe the next person with Cassandra's Tears would be the one to absorb the power of the Archive—if indeed it's transferable upon death.
Also, Bob was created by Etienne the Enchanter, per Fool Moon. Kemmler didn't make him, he just owned him.
-
On a related topic, does anyone else think that Lydia, and by extension, everyone with the Cassandra's Tears affliction, may have been other children of the Archive, the ones who don't inherit it? Like, the second-born daughters. The connection of the Archive to the Pythia and prophets is pointed out a bit too much for me to not think they're related in some way.
Anyway, maybe the next person with Cassandra's Tears would be the one to absorb the power of the Archive—if indeed it's transferable upon death.
Also, Bob was created by Etienne the Enchanter, per Fool Moon. Kemmler didn't make him, he just owned him.
Did Harry ever get his ghost protection bracelet back from Lydia? Guessing not. Doees anyone think Faith will have Cassandra Tears?
-
Did Harry ever get his ghost protection bracelet back from Lydia? Guessing not. Doees anyone think Faith will have Cassandra Tears?
I don't think Faith does.
I'm also pretty positive that we'll see Lydia again. I foresee the BAT to include a ton of fanservice, with pretty much every living character showing up to take a bow at one point or another. Like the Battle of Hogwarts tried to do.
-
With so many characters, that would make each BAT book 800 to 1,000 pages. Wishing, Hoping, Praying.
-
I want huge books. I want to see characters that I have forgotten about reappear. I want someone (probably not Harry) to ride off into the sunset.
Edit: I will of course be happy with whatever Mr. Butcher chooses to give us.
-
By the end of the casebooks, little Maggie will probably be a teen. Anyone think she will be crushin on Carlos?
-
With so many characters, that would make each BAT book 800 to 1,000 pages. Wishing, Hoping, Praying.
He did say that they'd each be double-sized, so, yeah... that'd be about right. (Though I think he was preempting the "Jim has obviously lost interest in the series and won't be writing any more" complaints, five-eight books in advance).
-
He did say that they'd each be double-sized, so, yeah... that'd be about right. (Though I think he was preempting the "Jim has obviously lost interest in the series and won't be writing any more" complaints, five-eight books in advance).
ooh, neat, I'd not seen that one. Thank you.
-
Maybe after the BAT, Butcher could work on a Dreseen Files encyclopedia.
-
The difference is that we have it in so many words that Bob was specifically built not just as a spirit of intellect but as an attempt at duplicating the Archive. Which leads me to believe that the chances of Bonnie being more like the Archive in the relevant ways (whatever they are) than Bob are low.
If we're talking about the same reference, that's not what Luccio was saying. She was saying the Bob was like a baby version of the Archive, a vast library of information and technical knowledge, not that Kemmler created him as such nor that he was created by Kemmler at all. She was making an analogy.
-
As far as short stories go, I would like to read the Hawaii story
At one time, I would have agreed.
Now, though, that has gone on long enough to become a 'noodle incident'. Nothing JB could write would ever satisfy the fan expectations, I suspect. Probably best to leave it vague.
-
I'd very much rather Hawaii was left a Noodle Incident, myself.
Also, I strongly suspect that a) Ivy getting kidnapped in SmF is a direct consequence of her developing a humanised personality (no point in the Denarians doing that before then because you can't torture information out of a filing cabinet) which appears to come about when and because Harry Names her (which creeps Kincaid out, a reaction I take very seriously) and b) that she is very likely to blame him for this, so Kincaid explaining to her about killing Harry may well get yelled at for not doing it well enough.
She would have had a human personality no matter what. That's part of the tragedy of her story.
-
Are you guys this into other authors? There are some people here who seem to spend a huge amount of time thinking about this series. I think there are even people who write fan fiction for the series? And, one person who writes stories with this series as a template?
Is it just Butcher that you’re so into, or are there other authors on whose works you spend a lot of time?
What’s the appeal of this series that induces the deep interest?
Jim's world creation. His ability to meld such an awesome story together and layer the way the world interacts within it's own design and discovering these little things for yourself.(also Wizards/Merlin is my favorite thing)
I've read a few Authors but i'm not reading any current series but this one.(as in more to come) Not all of them had the depth to make such theory and Waggery but saaayy, the other Harry series and now the Fantastic beasts movies(as Rowling is doing the actual story work and set up, it contains a veiled plot i'm following) do.
-
It is about character interactions and the humor that comes with it.
-
I like that Jim knows the rules of his universes (Codex Alera included; I'm assuming the Cinder Spires as well, but we don't know enough yet to point them out), and sticks to them. When you ask a question about how something works, he knows the answer without having to think about it. One of the things that I didn't like about Harry Potter and other fantasy works is that magic often runs on whimsy, to the point that "a wizard did it" has become a meme. And it's not Dragonlance Vancian magic, either, with spells that are written down and studied in advance; it's based on principle of energy, and the way a wizard taps into, interprets, and employs that energy is unique to each practitioner, but the rules that govern such actions remain consistent.
I also love the characters—pretty much all of them, with few exceptions (I'm not a fan of Lash, for instance, which puts me in the distinct minority, and some of the minor characters (Andi, for example) are a little one-note. Also, Georgia needs to do more without getting kidnapped). I have a soft spot for Michael especially, and find every book in which he appears to be better for his presence. Skin Game made me actively shout in delight when Uriel showed up. I love watching Harry interact with most everyone, especially back-sass.
For me, the plots of each individual book are mostly excuses for Harry to do clever things while talking to people. The plot of the series is getting better as more is revealed, and the scope of the overarching conflict is growing grander as the stakes are raised. And the details we're starting to get make rereads of the series more interesting; Cold Days especially changed my perspective on pretty much everything that came before it.
For a series with the basic premise of "Die Hard meets D&D," I certainly didn't expect the narrative, character, and universe depth that I got. Plus the series got my dad to start reading again, so that makes me happy.
-
Good to hear about your dad. I had to look up Vancian. Came across this article.
https://theevilgm.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/a-brief-history-of-vancian-magic/
-
That is a great summary of why the Dresden series is awesome Kindler. I agree with all of it. I love the fact that two different wizards could both use a fire spell and get very different results due to the way they tap into their power and form the spell. I love that this series has crossed over into so many different genres (horror, political, detective, heist, etc) while still remaining true to the characters and the overall themes of the series.
-
Good to hear about your dad. I had to look up Vancian. Came across this article.
https://theevilgm.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/a-brief-history-of-vancian-magic/
Fun read, which points out some of my issues with it for tabletop. (Though, as an avid wargamer, I will point out that Romans v. Gauls was always more popular than Napoleonics, and Waterloo's popularity as a tabletop scenario was due to A) it being easy to set up (neat rows six to ten stands across), B) Napoleonic games basically consisting entirely of shooting and movement rules only, because Napoleonic combat was essentially "move up and shoot," C) the figures are easy to paint, and D) everyone knows what Waterloo is. WRG/DBx games 4 lyfe.)
And yeah, he just kind of stopped reading for like a decade until I told him that this one has a wizard who rides a dinosaur.
-
Fun read, which points out some of my issues with it for tabletop. (Though, as an avid wargamer, I will point out that Romans v. Gauls was always more popular than Napoleonics, and Waterloo's popularity as a tabletop scenario was due to A) it being easy to set up (neat rows six to ten stands across), B) Napoleonic games basically consisting entirely of shooting and movement rules only, because Napoleonic combat was essentially "move up and shoot," C) the figures are easy to paint, and D) everyone knows what Waterloo is. WRG/DBx games 4 lyfe.)
And yeah, he just kind of stopped reading for like a decade until I told him that this one has a wizard who rides a dinosaur.
If that doesn't get a person's attention; not much will.
-
Alternatively, they could create brand new stories for Dresden and set it in an "alternate universe" to the main stories (my preferred method).
That's what they tried. It didn't go so well. (Not to say it couldn't be done again, but nobody knows these characters like Jim, and everything should be done with his involvement and approval, like the comics are. I don't want to see them try it, cuz they'll screw it up.)
-
She would have had a human personality no matter what. That's part of the tragedy of her story.
I do not believe this; there is no evidence at all for one being there before Harry Names her.
-
Well, to be fair; Harry does name her pretty fast after she is introduced. That kinda is a habit with him.
-
Well, to be fair; Harry does name her pretty fast after she is introduced. That kinda is a habit with him.
True.
But we have never seen anything else strike Kincaid as creepy, so I incline to read that as significant.
-
True.
What makes you think they were going to pump her for information? Honestly I've always been more confused about the Denarians interests here vs Nemesis's goals with the Archive(of which, I see at least 2 reasonings)
-
True.
But we have never seen anything else strike Kincaid as creepy, so I incline to read that as significant.
It's not the name "Ivy" he finds creepy, it's her seeing Mister, shouting "KITTY!" and petting him. There is zero indication that this has anything to do with Harry calling her "Ivy," but everything to do with her thinking cats are fun to pet, which, considering that Ivy can easily control freaking Mordite, seems wrong. It's the idea that someone who might be able to stand up to Ebenezer "Facesmasher" McCoy in open combat is still a child with childish traits that creeps him out, which has nothing to do with her being called "Ivy."
I don't think there's anything significant about Harry giving her a name except that it makes Harry one of two people who treats her like a person. It's the beginning of their relationship. Her having human connections as a child with the power she has is dangerous. We see that in Small Favor, when she's willing to put herself and the Archive at risk to save him. It's the relationship itself that's important, not the circumstances that started it.
At least, that's my interpretation.
-
It's not the name "Ivy" he finds creepy, it's her seeing Mister, shouting "KITTY!" and petting him. There is zero indication that this has anything to do with Harry calling her "Ivy," but everything to do with her thinking cats are fun to pet, which, considering that Ivy can easily control freaking Mordite, seems wrong. It's the idea that someone who might be able to stand up to Ebenezer "Facesmasher" McCoy in open combat is still a child with childish traits that creeps him out, which has nothing to do with her being called "Ivy."
I don't think there's anything significant about Harry giving her a name except that it makes Harry one of two people who treats her like a person. It's the beginning of their relationship. Her having human connections as a child with the power she has is dangerous. We see that in Small Favor, when she's willing to put herself and the Archive at risk to save him. It's the relationship itself that's important, not the circumstances that started it.
At least, that's my interpretation.
Good interpretation. Thats the way I saw it too. An immortal knowledge repository became excited by a kitty because its host is a child.
-
It's not the name "Ivy" he finds creepy, it's her seeing Mister, shouting "KITTY!" and petting him. There is zero indication that this has anything to do with Harry calling her "Ivy," but everything to do with her thinking cats are fun to pet, which, considering that Ivy can easily control freaking Mordite, seems wrong. It's the idea that someone who might be able to stand up to Ebenezer "Facesmasher" McCoy in open combat is still a child with childish traits that creeps him out, which has nothing to do with her being called "Ivy."
I read that as something she never did before that point. Kincaid isn't the sort of taciturn badass to let a reaction like that slip unless it was a surprise, IMO. And to my mind the thing wrong there is that Harry has just opened Ivy up to all sorts of vulnerabilities and Kincaid realises it instantly.
I don't think there's anything significant about Harry giving her a name except that it makes Harry one of two people who treats her like a person.
Names have power in the DV. We are told that all over the place, and shown it repeatedly. And Harry is really kind of prone to slinging them around, and we are told that it can have major consequences (cf, Lash).
-
Names have power in the DV. We are told that all over the place, and shown it repeatedly. And Harry is really kind of prone to slinging them around, and we are told that it can have major consequences (cf, Lash).
or Uri vs Uriel
-
That definitely got him in a mood; and we never got the full reason why, have we?
-
We did, it just helps to be a linguist. -El, when it comes to Hebrew names, means "God." Uriel's name, translated, means "God Is My Light."
Take God out of that.
What other Archangel was there with 'light' as part of his naming convention?
That last bit may be one step too far, but Uriel tells us straight out: "That bit you dropped (-El) happens to be very important to me."
-
Did the google thing, "morning star" in Hebrew is Helel. (pronounced HAY-lale) Sounds alot like Hell. Never knew that.
-
I read that as something she never did before that point. Kincaid isn't the sort of taciturn badass to let a reaction like that slip unless it was a surprise, IMO. And to my mind the thing wrong there is that Harry has just opened Ivy up to all sorts of vulnerabilities and Kincaid realises it instantly.
Kincaid wasn't present when he named her "Ivy." Harry locked him out of the apartment. Harry didn't call her "Ivy" in front of him until later. He only sees her petting Mister. The text (Death Masks, page 101 on Nook):
Hell's bells. It was adorable. She was just a kid.
A kid who knew more than any mortal alive. A kid with a scary amount of magical power. A kid who would kill me if I didn't show up to the duel. But still a kid.
I glanced up at Kincaid, who stood frowning down at Ivy fawning all over Mister. He shook his head and muttered, "Now, that's just creepy."
She went from all business, "Your life is forfeit unless you adhere to these rules"-type behavior to nuzzling a cat in the blink of an eye. Recognizing the source of the childish delight as a being who Harry later says could take one of the Ladies in a fight is creepy in and of itself.
Kincaid wasn't recognizing that there was a sudden shift in Ivy's personality, it's that he was reminded that she's a child, and his approach appears to have been to treat her as the Archive. This is a humanizing moment that came out of nowhere, for both Harry and Kincaid.
I acknowledge that names have power in the setting, and I'll admit that Ivy beginning to think of herself as "Ivy" may open her up to magical assault by using that name, but I think it's significantly different giving a mortal—Ivy is a mortal, just with the Archive in her head—a nickname than it is to give something like Uriel a nickname. I don't think that calling her "Ivy," especially when it's done so casually, can possibly have altered Ivy within a ten-minute time frame.
There is an argument that her forming an identity around the concept of "Ivy" changed her—over the course of several years, as she naturally matured—but I think it's stretching the lore of the Dresden Files to say that Harry giving her a nickname made her suddenly like petting cats.
That is my reading of the situation; beyond that, I'll agree to disagree on this.
-
Do you think the fact that Harry named the Archive after a type of vine will be significant?