Personally I feel like Urban Fantasy has stagnated itself the same way High Fantasy did.
Instead of Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs it has Vampires, Werewolves, Wizards, and Faeries.
Myke Cole's Shadow Ops: Control Point. Technically under the aegis of UF, but it's modern military fantasy and takes ooooooooold concepts and remixes them in a new way. I highly recommend it. http://mykecole.com/products-bibliography
Sadly, I know I am. There are rare exceptions, but for the most part I'm over the genre and don't read it anymore. I'm craving good epic fantasy. And I'm half-heartedly shopping around a UF book myself.Ditto, and for sometime now. It's not that I wouldn't love a really great new one, but you trod through an awful lot of 'maybes' that don't make it and it's easier to shun the lot a bit. Although I will give Shecky's suggestion a hard look, even though I'm not a true military sci fi fan. Does your wife like it? You and her have not lead me astray when it comes to tv series.
Ditto, and for sometime now. It's not that I wouldn't love a really great new one, but you trod through an awful lot of 'maybes' that don't make it and it's easier to shun the lot a bit. Although I will give Shecky's suggestion a hard look, even though I'm not a true military sci fi fan. Does your wife like it? You and her have not lead me astray when it comes to tv series.
All the more reason to look toward the next DF!
I'm liking Control Point so far, but I admit, I went sort of unamused when the book said "Women are usually healers..."
I've stayed unamused.
I'm liking Control Point so far, but I admit, I went sort of unamused when the book said "Women are usually healers..."
Personally I feel like Urban Fantasy has stagnated itself the same way High Fantasy did.
But it's certainly something to think about for those of us who are currently hoping to publish a book in this genre. What do you all think? :oDoesn't matter to me. I'm writing what I want, not to trends.
Case in point: look at any UF section in a bookstore and how many people choose to hang out there and you'll have your answer. :)
...really? :-\
What I find weird about this particular stereotype is that it's not even true, historically. Maybe it's a matter of people getting two different concepts (nurturing and healing) mixed up with traditional gender roles. Are women usually mothers? Well, yeah, with the varying degrees of nurturing that tends to involve. But have women, in the past and in the present, usually been healers? No.
Except, apparently, when completely made up magic systems become involved. Then suddenly women are all about the healing. ::)
Would your baloney-a-meter have kicked over if women turned out to be the best/most powerful and most commone fighter varients?
I agree I can't find why most women would be healers in the book anywhere.
The Deposed King
Judith Butler--social construction of gender :P Plus all the stuff on archetypes. Society does not willingly abandon archetypes and women are the mothers (and all that the moniker entails).
I was assuming The Deposed King was throwing in some sarcasm there, so if I'm wrong, I'll . . . um ... go back to healing :D
I think I get where you're headed with the Briggs--it's the whole humanity side. What makes us human and what makes us "other," and, along those lines, what makes the supernatural still human, which gets back to certain assumptions. Her wolves still strive to retain humanity; those that don't are the ones that need to be destroyed.
And, swinging that back around, what defines humanity? It often goes back to certain, basic binaries like man/woman, good/evil, black/white. . . The inescapability of certain roles.
I think it's interesting though, that if you look at the way those roles a navigated when an author wants to turn them upside down, it's a very delicate process--no one wants to create the "effeminate man" or the "*itch woman." Striking a balance that a general audience will accept while overturning certain stereotypes becomes a very difficult thing.
Here's my 2 cents. I want the oldey but goody stuff back. I miss the comic relief of eighties horror movies, not slasher, horror. I miss the star trek idea that yeah, the future maybe is gonna be a good place with good people in it. I miss fictional characters you aspire to be like rather than reality tv stars that lower your expectations of humanity. I miss the clever heroes that win by showing bright, not might, makes right. I miss the stories where the good guy doesn't get the girl, because yes, Rick is the good guy. I miss comedies that aren't all gross out humor or kick the protagonist, let Neidermeyer get the abuse. I miss vampires being the bad guys. I miss the occasional western. etc.etc. etc.
I actually like the Ilona Andrews husband wife team. The wife ilona writes most everything, except the scenes with the male leads. Then the husband writes at the male part. It leads to a certain consistency with the man/woman dicotamy you normally run into with a single sex author ( :o not sure I used the right descriptor here :P).
Yeah, you are write about the "Andrews team"--the relationship development in those books is probably amongst the best I've ever read. Very natural and not forced. The Kate Daniels series along with Patricia Briggs' series, are my favorites in the Urban Fantasy category (along with, of course, the Dresden Files) because the focus is not on the whole "romance" thing, but on the actual story.
So many of the books that have flooded the genre are really just serialized romances with a paranormal element thrown in. And the vast majority of them suck :D
Here's my 2 cents. I want the oldey but goody stuff back. I miss the comic relief of eighties horror movies, not slasher, horror. I miss the star trek idea that yeah, the future maybe is gonna be a good place with good people in it. I miss fictional characters you aspire to be like rather than reality tv stars that lower your expectations of humanity. I miss the clever heroes that win by showing bright, not might, makes right. I miss the stories where the good guy doesn't get the girl, because yes, Rick is the good guy. I miss comedies that aren't all gross out humor or kick the protagonist, let Neidermeyer get the abuse. I miss vampires being the bad guys. I miss the occasional western. etc.etc. etc.
I believe that the popularity of different stories and genres goes through cycles based on freshness for the audience. Certain things get popular then get overdone and have to take a rest because low quality stuff jumps on the bandwagon. You can tell when it is time for a change when it becomes the new, new, new, new version of the old stories rather than their return. The need to "make it fresh" kills the core values that make certain stories great to begin with.
I don't think readers are tired of urban fantasy, I think they are tired of the gimmicks that get slapped on to the point where it just becomes mass marketed cliches aimed at spoiled teenagers and later to be produced by michael bay starring the latest pop singer.
You're right. There's a lot of drek out there. :D
I wouldn't call it dreck. Paranormal romance, although not something that's to my personal taste, is a legitimate subgenre. Besides, Jim's wife writes paranormal romance, and I am NOT going to slam her work. :)
I wouldn't call it dreck. Paranormal romance, although not something that's to my personal taste, is a legitimate subgenre. Besides, Jim's wife writes paranormal romance, and I am NOT going to slam her work. :)
Fantasy in general seems like it's turning over a new leaf with authors like Rothfuss, Lynch, Abercrombie, etc. No trolls or elves to be found in that lot.And dragons. Don't forget the dragons. Dragons have been done to death. But Rothfuss ended up winning my heart forever with his draccus. "It's like a big cow." ;D It was brilliant. So there's something to be said for genre expectations. You just have to know what you're doing with them. Like Jim: He's got vampires, werewolves, and faeries, but that doesn't make him like all the other UF authors out there.
I wouldn't call it dreck. Paranormal romance, although not something that's to my personal taste, is a legitimate subgenre. Besides, Jim's wife writes paranormal romance, and I am NOT going to slam her work. :)
The Genere is very legitimate. And perhaps I let a little bit of my own disgust with paranormal romance writers who come on over to the fantasy scene and try to sell me, 'paranormal romance' packaged as urban fantasy.
The Genere is very legitimate. And perhaps I let a little bit of my own disgust with paranormal romance writers who come on over to the fantasy scene and try to sell me, 'paranormal romance' packaged as urban fantasy.
That said. Just as there are hum-de-dum writers in the fantasy scene who are more interested in their word count than producing a believeable story with consistent characters, in my few experience the paranormal romance scene has its fair share of inconsistent characters and books that are light on consistent believability as origionally put to paper by the writer and later modified to suit whatever fancy they felt like writing that day.
I've seen good and I've seen bad. I wasn't labeling the whole genre with a wide brush. I was just pointing to the stinky underbelly.
And yes I'm a little biased.
The Deposed King
I think this is where I have a problem as well. I have no problem at all with paranormal romance. I don't like it when it is deceitfully packaged. When I pick up a book about a tough, no nonsense monster hunter and find that the main character spends three fourths of her time thinking about one (or two, or three, or...) of the other characters looks, charm, voice, etc. it annoys me greatly. On the other hand I have absolutely problem when a good author has some overlap. The previously mentioned Kate Andrews books are a good example of this. The romance is a definite part of the stories but, for the most part, it has not threatened to become the main plot.
I agree. the later anita blake books turn out to be two sixths sex, three sixths pillow talk a and one sixth plot. a bit irritating considering the earlier books were good.I think is something interesting, especially when comparing to paranormal romance, because the PNRs I've read have a whole lot more story and a lot less sex. Like Shannon's books. And when there are sex scenes, they tend to further the plot. They're not just gratuitous.
A writer who seems to be flourishing in this new category is Sarah Addison Allen. The one I read was Garden Spells. I don't even know where it's classed in the book stores. I guess it's Charmed without the demons and world threatening plot lines.
I can tell you I'm utterly tired of reading variations on this on the book jacket.
"X is a PI/FBI/other law enforcement agent, blah blah blah problem, sexy male/vampire/werewolf person hates/doesn't want to be attracted to but must to solve the problem"
It's gotten to the point that I don't even try to read a UF book that mentions to 'love interest' on the book Jacket because it is just Paranormal Romance trying to make me think it is Urban Fantasy.
The other thing that annoys me is when a book cover completely contradicts a character. Why would you put someone in skimpy clothes on the cover when the main character is more at home with jeans and a t-shirt?
someone, somewhere decided sex sells. I wonder if the producers of game of thrones know the difference between a masterpiece and a porno. ugh.
personally i don't mind romance in books that much. I don't buy the books specifically for the romance, but I can ignore it fairly easily enough.
Buy some damn clothes you twats. lolThe 10 year old in me chuckled really loudly. :D
ya I hate the books with under dressed guys/girls on the cover. It's the sort of book you're embarrassed to take out into public and read.ebook readers solve that problem nicely. Read what you want, no one's the wiser. ;D
Wanna see some gorgeous people who are 1) fully, non-skankily clothed and 2) not twisting their spines into pretzels for the Sexy Shot? Look at Chris McGrath's covers (well, maybe ONE that pushes the envelope, but you'll see that as a rule, everyone's dressed, non-twisted and still attractive): http://christianmcgrath.com/ (http://christianmcgrath.com/)The man is a brilliant artist. If I had room left on the walls in my apartment, I'd buy some of his artwork.
The man is a brilliant artist. If I had room left on the walls in my apartment, I'd buy some of his artwork.
Since my wife is a Jim fan and her birthday fell very close to the GS release date, I got her a Jim-signed copy of the book PLUS a full-sized print of the GS cover signed by both Jim and Chris. It's freaking GORGEOUS. It's up on the wall next to our print of Priscellie's Alera map.*sigh* I have yet to find a spot for Priscellie's Alera map. I wish our apartment came with more walls.
So here's a question, in a story I'm working up, which I think is pretty cool so far, I'm in need of a couple vampires. I can't help it. They have the whole fangs and suck blood thing. Now I do intend on making them the bad guys, and menacing and sneaky, no sparkles here. But I can't help but wonder if I try to sell this to a publisher or an agent or even to readers will they see vampire and say "oh God not more of them..."
A writer who seems to be flourishing in this new category is Sarah Addison Allen. The one I read was Garden Spells. I don't even know where it's classed in the book stores. I guess it's Charmed without the demons and world threatening plot lines.
.
Meg: have you read anything by Caroline Stevermer? She's been around since the 80's and definitely falls into the "soft magic" category; she's been described as "Jane Austen with magic". The supernatural elements in her books tend to be very subtle and based around ordinary household objects as magical foci. I've never heard of Sarah Addison, but it sounds as though her work may be similar.
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On one side of the continuum, we have books where the magic is included in order to establish a sense of wonder and give the setting a fantastical feel. Books that focus on this use of magic tend to want to indicate that men are a small, small part of the eternal and mystical workings of the universe. This gives the reader a sense of tension as they're never certain what dangersor wondersthe characters will encounter. Indeed, the characters themselves never truly know what can happen and what can't.
The really good writers of soft magic systems very, very rarely use their magic to solve problems in their books.
This is the side where the authors explicitly describes the rules of magic. This is done so that the reader can have the fun of feeling like they themselves are part of the magic, and so that the author can show clever twists and turns in the way the magic works. The magic itself is a character, and by showing off its laws and rules, the author is able to provide twists, worldbuilding, and characterization.
If the reader understands how the magic works, then you can use the magic (or, rather, the characters using the magic) to solve problems. In this case, it's not the magic mystically making everything better. Instead, it's the characters' wit and experience that solves the problems. Magic becomes another tooland, like any other tool, its careful application can enhance the character and the plot.
The first UF book I recall reading was "Burning Water" by Mercedes Lackey, in 1989. At that time, I had never heard the phrase "urban fantasy."
I think the urban fantasy genre is growing stronger, rather than weaker. I am not disillusioned with the genre. I've seen a problem with the writing quality of some novels, more than the genre itself. A high quality, well written, UF novel flourishes, and then a number of poorly written knock-offs by other authors get published. This isn't something that happens solely with UF, though.
Overall, I think reader ennui is less with the genre, and more with the publishing of the same, or similar, story, over and over, without fresh characters, characterization, or good writing. I know better, yet I've been suckered into buying novels that had an interesting description, with some awesome cover art, only to discover that the writing is sub-par. That does happen less frequently since I can often view sample chapters online.
Of course recently I picked up a new book that seems to be the Butcher type of UF. So it's still around.
The title of the book is "Fated" by Benedict Jacka I haven't read it yet but the blurb on the back makes it sound like the right type.:-D I knew it had to be Fated. It does very much have a similar feel, to the point where I've started comparing it to Storm Front in the pacing. And it quite amuses me that the two cover blurbs-one on front and one on back-are from Jim. Also, the second book in the series, Cursed, comes out May 29.
:-D I knew it had to be Fated. It does very much have a similar feel, to the point where I've started comparing it to Storm Front in the pacing. And it quite amuses me that the two cover blurbs-one on front and one on back-are from Jim. Also, the second book in the series, Cursed, comes out May 29.
And I know Shecky will say it's good.
I can't tell you more than that, but I CAN tell you that the steady improvement and refinement are yet another thing he shares with Jim.
But I do think UF has changed. Some of it is more paranormal like Patricia Brigg's two series. Others are more Romance. They seem to go for the half human half something or another Main Characters now. Of course recently I picked up a new book that seems to be the Butcher type of UF. So it's still around.
Several of my favorite writers show vast improvement in their books through the years.
Several of my favorite writers show vast improvement in their books through the years.
Kat Richardson is an example of this for me. I enjoyed her Greywalker story in "Mean Streets" so much that I purchased the first novel of the Greywalker series. I didn't enjoy that book, but the promise of the series shown in the Greywalker "Mean Streets" story keeps me reading the books.
Came back here for one purpose but decided to stay for a while. :)Tricked is the fourth in the Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne. The first three are Hounded, Hexed, and Hammered.
First of all: Sorry Cenwolfgirl but there's a new UF out. "Tricked" don't recall the writer. But it's about a Geltic wizard who is hundreds of years old and someone ver powerful is angry at him. Supposedly next in line to Butcher.
Tricked is the fourth in the Iron Druid series by Kevin Hearne. The first three are Hounded, Hexed, and Hammered.
OZ do I know you from another forum?
Gulp. Yes I do, it seems, but I love to read, so it is not a burden at all, rather a joy to know I have a stack of books on my shelf to read, especially when winter rolls around.
But next I have to re-read DF, because I blew through all the books pretty darn fast...and not in order, as I wasn't able to find all of them at first. In fact my first read was Turn Coat. LOL
I'd be interested in your list of authors. And though I love Jim's blending of humor and drama, I dig plain ole dark drama just as much.
So far I have found books by Harry Connolly (3), Kevin Hearne (3), Justin Gustainus (3), Joseph Nassise (Heretic) and Patrick Rothfull (The Name of the Wind). Are any of those on your list?
Benedict Jacka: the Alex Verus series. Book 1, Fated, and book 2, Cursed, are already out, and book 3, Taken, is due out in three months. Jim himself has happily supplied cover blurbs to the series and has Jacka on his must-read list.and now i am going to look this up
lol zuriel the problem is i have other things i need this money for and my funds are far streched enough a it is with out bying more books
plus i need another book self as it is
oh well more books to enjoy it is
i found the DF sires at my libary
i have only got a small libary and mostly only get adio books from it
if they are rely good i try and get my own coppy like i am doing with the DF sires but it is very limeted sulection at my libary :(
so i often have to use my kindle to get books
LDWriter2: Thanks! This is great! I've seen a few of the names before, but don't know anything about them. I guess you can check out my list and I'll check out yours. I notice your list is mostly women, where mine is all men. I think I have this misconception that female writers are more into the UF/romance thing. Guess that may not be quite accurate.
And a shout out and thanks to you, The Deposed King, for recommending the Kate Daniels series. I will definitely check it out.
I'm gonna need a bigger bookcase...
Female versus male writers do have different strength and weaknesses. But IMO I don't think its as noticable in UF a say military Sci-Fi. At least it isn't, so long as the book isn't a paranormal romance in disguise!
Regardless Ilona Andrews is a husband/wife writing team. So they can nail the male/female character differences better and the Kate Daniels Series is definitely UF.
LDWriter2: Thanks! This is great! I've seen a few of the names before, but don't know anything about them. I guess you can check out my list and I'll check out yours. I notice your list is mostly women, where mine is all men. I think I have this misconception that female writers are more into the UF/romance thing. Guess that may not be quite accurate.
As long as the book is good and doesn't turn into fluff land, I really don't care who writes it, but I will be wary of disguises.
Thank you! I shall amend my thinking and give the ladies a chance. :)
First: Yeah, my favorites do seem to be female writers with two big exceptions as listed, well Jim is one of those two. But there are two other men who are close to my favorites. One is Mark del Franco who has two series both of which take place in the same universe. Unlike Gilman they are not in the same city and I'm not sure if they are in the same time either.
The other guy I'm going to have to look up he has a complicated name.
Second: Some men do some romance, Jim as a touch of romance. But then again a lot of the new UF is heavy romance type, I usually reject them though.
Me no likey the fluff land. Romance is awesome. But I need my action and suspense that has nothing to do with sexual tension.
okay guys they are just little creatures
(okay tranchelars creep me out so do scorpions but tiny spirers? )
chill
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/SheckyX/9633bed4-54b6-4af4-aae9-2379d5bd4606.jpg)
so i have been told (before i got to 1,000 post you showed me that pickture)
but you are acting worse then my 14 year old sister!
rely you are just over reacting a bit do you not think?
and i am not sceared of your fancy net gun ;) i have my own wepon
edit: everytime i see that thing this song springs to mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oznj6AFeiRE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oznj6AFeiRE)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/SheckyX/tankmuzzle.jpg)
Has this thread not died? It needs a quiet place in the earth--spiders or no.
*sigh*
Has this thread not died? It needs a quiet place in the earth--spiders or no.
*sigh*
Because spiders are evil. I don't care what good they inadvertently do by feeding themselves; they are eight-eyed, eight-legged emissaries of Satan who shoot silk out of their asses. You can't tell me that's right.
Has this thread not died? It needs a quiet place in the earth--spiders or no.
*sigh*
Nuh-uh. There is no "just spiders". There is only Zuul.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/SheckyX/tankmuzzle.jpg)*runs and hids* you win
When I was in Okinawa I had a cane spider living in my house. The first time I saw it out of the corner of my eye was while getting a drink of milk from the fridge. It freaked the hell out of me, the thing was bigger than my open hand.
I emptied half a can of raid on the thing, and I swear to Zuul it shrugged at me. It just went 'meh'. So I made a deal with it (there was no way I was going to smush something that big). I told it "If you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone." Besides it ate the giant flying roaches common in Okinawa, so I did get one benefit from the deal.
It worked out fine until the inspector came to check my household goods when I was transferred. I forgot to warn her about the spider ::) and she met it alone in a different room. I've never before or since heard such a scream. ;D
Sorry, I should have included you in my sympathys as I did for the inspector. Who wouldn't scream? I did the first time I saw a wolf spider, which is about the same size as you describe...as big as a hand. Luckily, the thing was not in my home. I'm not sure how I would have reacted, except to scream bloody hell and run. I figured if I attacked it with Raid, it would have looked at me with all those little beady eyes and charged. Ewww...and gross.
Your response was ok, zuriel. I laughed too, but I was used to the spider by then. It was supposed to be a funny story. The two Okinawan packers laughed the butts off once they understood what had happened.
The first time I saw it was a different story. I laughed then, too. But not until my heart slowed down. ;) :)
::) shecky ::) :P ;D
i think this is exstream and you are worse then my little sister the paer of you
but hay what ever i am leaving you to it
I see someone has fallen prey to the "spiders are cute and fluffy and good for you and nice-smelling" propaganda.
nope just you are over reacting
i set my dog on spiders shecky and she eats them
but shooting them is a good way of getting inocent by standers killed
God'll sort 'em out, because He WANTS us to eradicate those emissaries of Satan.You have a lot of faith in God - he won't do any such thing. Because he hasn't eradicated any snakes until now, has he?
i never had a problem with snakes infat there is a picture some hwere of me holding a gient albino phythan when i was about 14 ;DI am mortally afraid of snakes. Even the cartoon or animated ones. Can't stand them. *shudder*
You have a lot of faith in God - he won't do any such thing. Because he hasn't eradicated any snakes until now, has he?
Edit: pardon the lack of capitalization on the "he".
You have a lot of faith in God - he won't do any such thing. Because he hasn't eradicated any snakes until now, has he?
Edit: pardon the lack of capitalization on the "he".
He chased them out of Ireland....Ok so that's ONE little piece of land. What about the rest of the planet?
Snakes are Creation's version of "Hey y'all, watch this." Not evil, just weird. ;)How much did the snakes bribe you to say that? ;D
who started this convisation as it is defently off track*shudder* They are definitely NOT cool for me. *shudder* Also, we derail threads. That's what we do. Not your responsibility.
it was not me i clame no responserbilaty for this okay
and snakes are a little strange but cool
and misuderstood most of the time so long as they stick to there native country i am fine with them
Ok so that's ONE little piece of land. What about the rest of the planet?
How much did the snakes bribe you to say that? ;D
*shudder* They are definitely NOT cool for me. *shudder* Also, we derail threads. That's what we do. Not your responsibility.
I see someone has fallen prey to the "spiders are cute and fluffy and good for you and nice-smelling" propaganda.
And, they smell good, too? Awe-some! ;)rely???
lol even if the spider in harmless?
According to all the Little Miss Muffets on this thread: No.
hahahahah ;)
The Deposed King
I'm no Muffet. Those curds and whey would've been dropped on the spider to hold it in position, then the bowl would've been broken to kill the evil thing.
I'm no Muffet. Those curds and whey would've been dropped on the spider to hold it in position, then the bowl would've been broken to kill the evil thing.
Now that could make an interesting story. As you probably know they are redoing some of the fairy tales so why not that one.
Muffet, Alien Spider Slayer. Still wouldn't watch it.
But getting back to the subject well my last post probably is on subject...UF.
Anyway, I don't have time to type in all five tonight but here are two more UF writers.
One I haven't seen in person but the online description over at Barnes and Noble.com sounded interesting, maybe lighthearted.
Nightshifted
by Cassie Alexander
Second one here is from my collection. The writer is on my second level...I like reading her stuff but she's not my favorite.
So:
Margaret Ronald, The Evie Scelan series. All with the word Hunt in the title. There are, maybe, five of them. Ronald's world is darker than DF, very few magic users and most are insane in one form or another. Not always in bad ways.
This series is the final inspiration for two different novels I am writing. I say final because there are a couple of others with the same type of MC.
I have found, however, that when you start talking specific books, the ones that I was referring to as being lousy may be the very ones that you think make the cut while you may believe that some of my favorites are horribly written. That's part of the fun.
I think readers are tired of poorly written, derivative novels that imitate best sellers. Readers are always happy to read something original and well done, and never happy to read all the other authors that try to profit off of the original success.
It's just part of the game that authors pick up on the formula of a successful UF - or any other genre. If they can turn their book into something with a twist, something original, along with the copycat portions, and write well, then it becomes a book of its own right. But yeah, I cringe thinking of all the followers that try but never quite pull it off. I'm sure I'll run into a bunch of those as I branch out and read other UF besides DF.
There's nothing new under the sun. Everyone is just re-working what's already out there, so the challenge becomes making it their own, unique storytelling that uses what's been learned and read into a fresh, new perspective. It's not that easy.
DF is my first venture into the world of UF in book form. It's exactly my cup of tea. Pure fantasy is not and neither is techno SciFi either. But a mixture of everything suits me just fine. Someday I will read another UF book, once I get my "fix" of DF, which right now is not even on the horizon.
Even though books are highly subjective, I still marvel at the people I know who have read the books and haven't succumbed to obsession. What?? How can that be? :-\
Three series have ended and even though Butcher is writing another DF novel how many more will follow?
Twenty or so casefiles in total and a Big Apocalyptic Trilogy to cap it off is the Plan, there. It is known.
Of course I'm picky of the ones I buy so I might be avoiding the bad writers. But I also reject good writers because their type of UF isn't quite what I want. Patricis Briggs is one-I'm not sure if I put her on my list. I love her writing and story telling abilities but the Mercy books are to romantic sounding for me. Well, they might be more paranormal than UF. Sometimes they are very close to each other.
I'd say Patricia Briggs is UF. She has a decently sophisticated world with many different types of supernatural races. If you decided not to try her out because you thought the Mercy books were romance, I'd highly recommend trying her out anyway. I've always seen the romance plot for Mercy as being very much in the background. It's definitely overshadowed by the mystery and action/adventure plots.
If you don't like any sort of heavy romance in your UF, I would, however, avoid Patricia Briggs' Alpha Omega series. Those books definitely have a prominent romantic subplot.
I haven't been keeping track, which one is the one he is working on?
I'm not as critical of what I read as some people but I don't think I have ran into any of the poorly written copycats. Some nicely written copycats but not poorly. :)
Of course I'm picky of the ones I buy so I might be avoiding the bad writers. But I also reject good writers because their type of UF isn't quite what I want. Patricis Briggs is one-I'm not sure if I put her on my list. I love her writing and story telling abilities but the Mercy books are to romantic sounding for me. Well, they might be more paranormal than UF. Sometimes they are very close to each other.
Then again sometimes it's just not quite right for me. Like Rachael Craine--not sure about that last name--stormwardens series. Good writing, nice tale but something about it doesn't grab me even after reading three in that series.
I feel the same. It was my first try at UF, even though through the years I may have read a couple of short stories or stand alone UF books without realizing it. Now I'm hooks most of my reading is UF. But that may have to change. Three series have ended and even though Butcher is writing another DF novel how many more will follow? I think the Walker papers are going strong and Gilman's second series still needs at least three more. McGuire's old series has at least three more. Seems like there's another I'm losing but can't think of it right now.
Don Johnson!!! I LOVE THAT MOVIE!!!!!!
JB is in the copycat class as well, for he's taken from other works, same as the others. The trick is using those copycat portions in a different aspect with original values, tweaked to fit a new story. And I think JB did just fine in that respect. And there's some references he doesn't even try to hide (and I'm not talking about the Star Wars stuff).
It'll take me a while to get my fill of DF, so the books I have on the shelf will likely be gathering dust a while longer. ;) And I'm already bemoaning the fact that someday the DF books will end. Gah!
My favorite author in the past was mostly categorized as SciFi, but his short stories ran the gamut of genre. Unfortunately, Harlan Ellison doesn't write anymore, but he's one of the best SF authors out there, though it's unfair to call them SF. He's in a category and a style all his own.
And it's probably hard to find his books. I had trouble several years ago, because they're out of print, but well worth finding if you're lucky. He also wrote for Outer Limits and worked for Disney for a day...until he got fired. He also wrote articles and reviews of many different things, highly critical of what was popular at the time (around the 1970's IIRC). The man is very opinionated and outspoken, but he knows his craft.
Back in the 70's Harlan let one of his novellas be made into a movie, which turned out less than stellar, and he swore he would never let Hollywood screw up one of his stories again. The movie, A Boy and His Dog, stemmed from his story entitled Vic and Blood. It was a hoot in its own way and became a cult classic. It's about a post-apocalyptic world where the boy wanders with his dog, Blood, who is telepathic, "talks" to him. Their banter is priceless.
Yeah, he is but not totally. I even sent him an E-mail about one thing he copied-can't recall what right now-and even though I said that was okay, writers do it all the time he still sent me back a response and listed two other things he copied--Bob was one of those things. So as I said he's copied certain items but not the whole idea---other writers copy him.
I heard about that movie back when but didn't know he was in it. Of course back then I'm not sure if a lot of people people knew him.
But speaking of movies, anyone see the one UF movie they showed last year? Not counting Harry Potter who is technically UF but I don't think is thought of as UF.
I have nine more JB books I can read, of course only one and a half to two have been written but that gives me around nine more years of him :) That doesn't count that Bigfoot set of stories or anything else he may write during that time including more DF short stories.
But speaking of movies, anyone see the one UF movie they showed last year?
With Briggs Mercy books I am just going along with the blurb on the back. That's not always the best way to know a book but all of the books in that series have had the same type of blurbs. I should say that I almost read them, close enough that I still keep up with the series.Alpha and Omega are about werewolves, and so are the Mercy books. Although the biggest difference is that Mercy's not a werewolf, and she deals with other types of supernatural creatures. From a couple interviews I've read, it sounds like the two series are going to start running concurrently and reference each other more. She's also writing only one book a year now, switching between the two, because she was having trouble keeping up the pace with putting out two a year. Or something like that-I forget the specifics, and I think she'd mentioned that at a con about two years ago.
Funny thing is I don't recall ever seeing her werewolf series...I assume it's the Alpha one someone mentioned. I found out about while chatting with another writer on that writers blog. That writer has a e-book out about shifters. Maybe two. If you can read e-books it would be a great one to read. I think she has out a full novel and a short story. It is romantically influenced. :) And I think only one is a wolf but I'm not completely sure, neither might be a wolf.
And the movie I'm referring to is "The Sorcerer's Apprentice". I know a take off from the Micky Mouse one but there's a whole lot more to this movie than that scene. In fact at the beginning of the trailers I almost thought the wizard was Harry. In certain scenes he almost seems modeled after Harry.
I saw both The Sorceror's Apprentice and Dylan Dog. I thought there was at least one other UF movie last year but I may be remembering something from a previous year. This happens more and more as I grow older. I didn't think either of the two previously mentioned movies were fantastic but I enjoyed them both. I probably liked TSA better than DD. I thought it was a lot of fun.
Alpha and Omega are about werewolves, and so are the Mercy books. Although the biggest difference is that Mercy's not a werewolf, and she deals with other types of supernatural creatures. From a couple interviews I've read, it sounds like the two series are going to start running concurrently and reference each other more. She's also writing only one book a year now, switching between the two, because she was having trouble keeping up the pace with putting out two a year. Or something like that-I forget the specifics, and I think she'd mentioned that at a con about two years ago.
Aso, the Sorcerer's Apprentice thing--there was a huge amount of discussion and whatnot around the forum because of the similarities to DF, and all. And Jim even posted a bunch of side by side pictures on twitter at one point. Something else that gets noted with that a lot--Nic Cage was exec producer for the DF tv series.
And Dylan Dog--the craft was showing. I wasn't even trying to watch the movie critically, but I could see a lot of the writing pretty blatantly. Though no examples spring to mind at the moment.
All the Mercy covers have only Mercy, and I don't recall any shifters other than wolves. Only books I recall that had a lion on any of the covers are the Magic books by Ilona Andrews. Or maybe the Kitty books. I know those two have different types of shifters. And for the most part Patricia's longest series are the Mercy and A&O series--she's said in an interview, or at a con, that she tends to get on a writing kick that lasts quite a while, and so far that writing kick is centered on UF/PNR, but at some point she's likely to revisit the Dragon Bones/Blood world. I forget the exact reason why she switched to alternating books-not so much that she writes slow, because for a while she was putting out two a year, as well as some shorts in anthologies-but I think it was just very tiring. I couldn't find anything in the search I just did. Also, I know this past year or so her writing was also very affected by the renovations she and her husband were doing on their house. I think her husband wrote, at some point, on her website that she got stuck for a while because of all the stress from the situation. I believe she said that's why Fair Game's release got pushed back a few weeks. That one I think she said at NYCC. And thinking of that, that might've been where I heard some of this stuff. It starts to get difficult trying to remember where I heard/read anything.
As I understood it the shifters in the Mercy books turned into other things like lions. I think I recall a lion on the cover of one. Of course cover artists do get confused at times.
But I don't recall Briggs having that many real series. There is her Raven series but that is three maybe four books. Her Dragon Bones one and its sequel--or is Bones the second one-- and her first published book and its newer sequel. Too bad she can't do more than one book a year. Is she still working? Or is she slow at writing? Some writers are.
Yup, sounds like you're definitely referring to the Ilona Andrews Magic books. Kate Daniels is the main character, and the romantic interest is Curran-a werelion.
I could very well be getting my covers mixed up. But with what the book covers said I was still under the impression that Mercy's shifters were not wolves. I'll try to find the first one and see if I can remember why.
There was one somewhere that has a lion on the cover. Might be Kitty. The head lion in the pride is a romantically interest of the MC.
Getting back to the copycat part of the discussion.It's quite a common thing. And it's something that just ends up happening. I've seen agents comment at times about how they're suddenly getting submissions of a certain type--not related to any sort of trends. Most people I've seen comment on it look at it as a sort of subconscious hive mind type thing.
Other writers do it but along those lines I wonder if pro writers have some type of club they belong to, read the same books--on writing--or get some type of Newsletter the rest of us can't get. Because sometimes they copy each other at the same time. Or very close to the same time.
I could very well be getting my covers mixed up. But with what the book covers said I was still under the impression that Mercy's shifters were not wolves. I'll try to find the first one and see if I can remember why.
There was one somewhere that has a lion on the cover. Might be Kitty. The head lion in the pride is a romantically interest of the MC.
Pat Elrod was griping on FB the other day that she needed to come up with a new genre that would put her in the J.K. Rowling class of best-sellerdom, and that vampires and wizards seemed to be overdone. I suggested to her that the Young Adult market seems to be where the money is, and judging by recent trends, maybe she should try a series about angsty teenage zombies. She was not enthused.
Has anyone done anything with intelligent zombies that only eat brains of livestock?
Not that I've heard of.
Though I understand that there's now a book and/or movie with a zombie as a romantic lead.
Urghhh - "I love you - let me eat your brains!!" ?????????
Pat Elrod was griping on FB the other day that she needed to come up with a new genre that would put her in the J.K. Rowling class of best-sellerdom, and that vampires and wizards seemed to be overdone.
I can't wait for zombies to stop being trendy, they really have no appeal to me.Agreed; I don't get the appeal of what is, basically, a mindless animated corpse at all.
What I'd really like to see is some clever tech/science based Steampunk fiction with no paranormal elements whatsoever.
What I'd really like to see is some clever tech/science based Steampunk fiction with no paranormal elements whatsoever.
The few steampunk stories I've read and enjoyed reminded me of this little plum: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Which describes the "accidental" (i.e., an ill-understood discovery in an alternate timeline) steampunk stories quite well.
The few steampunk stories I've read and enjoyed reminded me of this little plum: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Which describes the "accidental" (i.e., an ill-understood discovery in an alternate timeline) steampunk stories quite well.
I find the correlation between clockwork automata and colonialist attitudes rather interesting, do you attribute that to outright copying (and perhaps over-nurturing) of 19th cent. prevalent attitudes or to something within the technological premise itself?
I loved the Lord D'Arcy series. I was unaware that anyone had continued them. I will have to look for the Michael Kurland stories.Michael Kurland is pretty good, and blends seamlessly into Randall Garrett's universe with the novels A Study In Sorcery and Ten Little Wizards. Kurland also has another series all his own, featuring Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, Professor Moriarty, as the protagonist.
First of all: I don't think Lord D'Arcy would be any form of steampunk. It used magic not steam or 1800 to early 1900 tech to do things. Could be magicpunk maybe. :)
Michael Kurland is pretty good, and blends seamlessly into Randall Garrett's universe with the novels A Study In Sorcery and Ten Little Wizards. Kurland also has another series all his own, featuring Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, Professor Moriarty, as the protagonist.
That's why I said "a presursor to steampunk", though it really is in a class by itself. The technology is steam era, with locomotives, and airships, and wireless telegraphy in a 1950s time period, where the Plantagenets still ruled England, and never succeeded in colonizing the Americas, and magic was the core power source of governments and medicine.
Hmm, thought there was three or four...maybe I made them up in my mind. :)
That is a universe I would love to be able to write in. I wonder if there is any fan fic anywhere online.
I always wondered if Glen Cook's Garrett PI was given that name as a nod of the head to Randall Garrett. Before the Urban Fantasy trend Lord D'Arcy and Garrett PI were the best known (at least to me) investigators in worlds where magic is prevalent.