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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: MoroccoMole on December 07, 2020, 05:54:41 PM
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Bob spent a long time swirling around Eihniu during the binding, which could arguably be Harry's largest working yet. One of Harry's power sources was the Spear of Longinus, an almost sentient holy relic. I wonder, how Bob was effected by the power of the spear? an upgrade? Or as a spirit of intellect is he immune to it's influence?
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Bob spent a long time swirling around Eihniu during the binding, which could arguably be Harry's largest working yet. One of Harry's power sources was the Spear of Longinus, an almost sentient holy relic. I wonder, how Bob was effected by the power of the spear? an upgrade? Or as a spirit of intellect is he immune to it's influence?
Bob never "held" the Spear, ergo I doubt that he was affected by it at all. The only "holder" of the Spear is Harry.
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I don't think Bob will have been much changed by anything if he's back in Harry's possession.
There is one thing that might be a big change. Butters introduced him to the internet and the principles of modern communication. We saw in BG that he can monitor radio communications to some degree. (I need to read it at least one more time before I can remember details like I can for the books that have been out a while). The implications of this are going to be interesting if Harry has continued possession of Bob, Jim bothers to think about it, and incorporates it into the books. Jim has waffled on whether or not Harry now has Bob or Bob is going back to Butters.
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Bob exists literally as a talking head to provide exposition, these days if we need to know something we look it up on the internet on our mobile phones.
Bob can fulfil that role now for Harry. Harry has a Smartbone.
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Bob once said that there were some things of a spiritual nature that he couldn't go near. He said he would be crossing lines he shouldn't or couldn't cross. It's one of the early novels. (I just remembered. Harry wanted Bob to find the Shroud of Turin.) So, I don't think the spear had any impact on Bob at all. His physical proximity to the spear did not mean he was interacting with it in any way.
Bob might have learned something about Ethniu and how her power works that he didn't know before. So, it's possible that in some future novel Harry could decide to unleash Ethniu on a more dangerous enemy and Bob might provide Harry with some advice on how best to control her. I'm not predicting that will happen, but it's one way Bob being around Ethniu could be significant.
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Bob once said that there were some things of a spiritual nature that he couldn't go near. He said he would be crossing lines he shouldn't or couldn't cross. It's one of the early novels. (I just remembered. Harry wanted Bob to find the Shroud of Turin.) So, I don't think the spear had any impact on Bob at all. His physical proximity to the spear did not mean he was interacting with it in any way.
Bob might have learned something about Ethniu and how her power works that he didn't know before. So, it's possible that in some future novel Harry could decide to unleash Ethniu on a more dangerous enemy and Bob might provide Harry with some advice on how best to control her. I'm not predicting that will happen, but it's one way Bob being around Ethniu could be significant.
I haven't see anyone mentioning this possibiity: Harry can take Titanic bronze
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I haven't see anyone mentioning this possibiity: Harry can take Titanic bronze
Why would Bob watching Ethniu get sealed lead to Harry knowing that?
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Bob was the circle that binded Ethniu, he might've gathered information about her physics.
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Titanic bronze really isn't all that when you think about it. It's based on willpower. If you don't have a huge amount of willpower to manifest as physical durability then it's basically less than bronze. It might mean harry doesn't need to use active magic, but he'd still have to throw his might into the armor to tank stuff... And it wear him down fast.
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It might take a Titan's willpower (or as Harry put it, denial power) for whole body armor, but if it can be broken down to smaller parts, then it could be manageable. Besides, we don't know enough about starborn.
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It might take a Titan's willpower (or as Harry put it, denial power) for whole body armor, but if it can be broken down to smaller parts, then it could be manageable. Besides, we don't know enough about starborn.
don't know enough...? Well, it doesn't automatically give you godly willpower by itself so we know enough for that.
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What we do know about starborns, which isn't in great details, is that they're anomaly once every 666 years that can defy Outsiders.
So yes, we literally don't know enough
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What we do know about starborns, which isn't in great details, is that they're anomaly once every 666 years that can defy Outsiders.
So yes, we literally don't know enough
we know they don't have godly willpower, nuff known for that topic.
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No, we don't know if that's necessary for starborns to defy gods or anyone else, that's why they're anomalies
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No, we don't know if that's necessary for starborns to defy gods or anyone else, that's why they're anomalies
irrelevant. We know godly willpower is necessary for titanic bronze. We also know they don't simply possess godly willpower. Don't confuse what we don't know with what is already presented.
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irrelevant. We know godly willpower is necessary for titanic bronze. We also know they don't simply possess godly willpower. Don't confuse what we don't know with what is already presented.
You're the one who's confusing opinion to relevancy, there's no specific law written about starborn having total immunity to Outsiders' will in early books before Jim said or wrote it.
Who said godly willpower is necessary for titanic bronze? Have we read other beings tried to wear it & couldn't, did Jim ever say it in any event? Definitely not, so that's only an assumption made by you.
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Who said godly willpower is necessary for titanic bronze?
the books, the books make it clear titanic bronze is held together according to the willpower of the host. Read them, battlefield specifically. Harry monologues about it when he sees Ethniu tanking shots and notices later when regular bullets are having an effect because she's been weakened. The rest of your post does not bear responding to...
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The book said the armor is powered by Ethniu's willpower, it doesn't say the godly willpower is necessary to power it, and no line in the Battle Ground supports that assumption.
“The stuff . . . it affects Creation on a fundamental level,” he said. “As long as it has enough will behind it, the physical world is going to have a very limited effect on her.”
I squinted at the old man. “So as long as she thinks she’s invincible, she is?”
The old man lifted his eyebrows. “Haven’t ever heard it summed up that way before. But, yes, that’s accurate enough for our purposes.”
“Denial armor,” I muttered. “Hell’s bells. So how do we get through it?”
Vadderung said it takes divine status to physically penetrate or destroy the armor, but that does not mean that's the requirement for its wearer.
So unless you can tell me where exactly the idea "godly willpower is necessary to use titanic bronze" was written in BG, there's nothing that suggests that possibility is impossible
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Godly is a description my friend. It doesn't require being an actual God. Godly willpower. My point stands as it originally was.
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I haven't see anyone mentioning this possibiity: Harry can take Titanic bronze
And? Jim could certainly have Harry wear the armor, it only takes him deciding that the plot needs it. Why would it need it? I see no use case. WOJ is that he doesn't want Harry too powerful.
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The armour would probably need to be reforged/repaired for him to use it, and that Knowledge is apparently lost (outside of maybe Ethniu herself).
It wouldn't be much use for Harry in any case, seeing as how he doesn't have much belief in his own invincibility, and that's what makes the Titanic Bronze so strong.
Now, what Harry needs is Armour powered by how invincible others think he is. At this stage, that would be a serious investment.
Power of Friendship Armour>Denial Armour.
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Godly is a description my friend. It doesn't require being an actual God. Godly willpower. My point stands as it originally was.
You don't have any point, everything you said was based on your assumptions.
your statements
- without godly willpower it's basically less than bronze -> except the armor was made from a unique alloy of Olympian bronze and mordite, so no, not even close
- godly willpower is a necessary requirement -> no it's not, literally Jim only wrote enough willpower and nothing else had been said about the requirement on wearing it, so when did enough translates to godly?
- lack of knowledge about starborns irrelevant, starborns don't simply possess godly willpower -> what kind of logic is this, we know almost nothing about starborns & you claim you know they don't possess godly willpower, which you said "a description", a.k.a. based on your own interpretation. No one knows what level of willpower Drakul possesses, for instance.
And? Jim could certainly have Harry wear the armor, it only takes him deciding that the plot needs it. Why would it need it? I see no use case. WOJ is that he doesn't want Harry too powerful.
oh i don't know, not getting Harry mashed into thin crepe when stuck in a place & situation where mighty beings like Ferrovax & Vadderung combat each other might be a necessity soon, Jim can't have Harry dead before the series end. It doesn't necessarily mean Harry will become too powerful, as that word indicates he became on par with Eb/Mab or others above them, or something like that.
Or even to give a modified armor to Maggie to protect her from mortal dangers in Apocalyptic events.
The armour would probably need to be reforged/repaired for him to use it, and that Knowledge is apparently lost (outside of maybe Ethniu herself).
It wouldn't be much use for Harry in any case, seeing as how he doesn't have much belief in his own invincibility, and that's what makes the Titanic Bronze so strong.
Now, what Harry needs is Armour powered by how invincible others think he is. At this stage, that would be a serious investment.
Power of Friendship Armour>Denial Armour.
well that's what i had in mind, Bob had enough time in close interaction with Ethniu & armor alloy, Ivy has expertise in mordite, he already knows svartalves, Molly knew them even better, he has habit of tinkering with magical stuffs, it's probable all these might give him a chance to create a suited armor for him or Maggie, not a whole body armor, even just arms or chest would be immense advantage from now on until BAT.
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Let's see,
1 Titanic armor runs on willpower
2 Ethniu, still capable of taking on multiple beings of power cannot totally block bullets without effect in her weakened state
3 if you have enough willpower and any magical or otherwise supernatural ability you can override reality itself. Something almost godlike in its execution.
Ergo without godly willpower Titanic armor is useless.
Harry's a starborn
1 Harry does not automatically possess godly willpower by default. He's had to work and harden his will over the years.
These are the only points that matter, and yes. They do stand as pretty much self evident.
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Let's see,
1 Titanic armor runs on willpower
2 Ethniu, still capable of taking on multiple beings of power cannot totally block bullets without effect in her weakened state
3 if you have enough willpower and any magical or otherwise supernatural ability you can override reality itself. Something almost godlike in its execution.
Ergo without godly willpower Titanic armor is useless.
Harry's a starborn
1 Harry does not automatically possess godly willpower by default. He's had to work and harden his will over the years.
These are the only points that matter, and yes. They do stand as pretty much self evident.
But was her armor really penetrated? Basically the heavy hitters went where the armor wasn't.
In the end Odin tricked her into taking his spear, then it backfired on her and hit her right in the uncovered Eye, upon which Lara issued a sharp blow to the back of her head that knocked it out of her head. Then the battle with Harry was basically all mental, his will verses her will, and with the added oomph of the Spear, and a little help from Marcone/Namshiel getting some blood from her was able to call Alfred to do the rest.
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Yea, gungir blew off her arm, where there was definitely uhhh ARMor lol. Gard hamstrung her if I remember where she struck correctly. I'd have to look back to remember if there was more, but I think both those cases were straight up raw power overload as apposed to Sanya or Marcone and using the angelic wavelength.
Her will was not completely diminished yet, but it was faltering. Say, in the Beginning she tanks shots like Eb in his robes in changes, but near the end it's more like Dresden in his duster, she could still feel it, even if it wasn't getting through yet.
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Yea, gungir blew off her arm, where there was definitely uhhh ARMor lol. Gard hamstrung her if I remember where she struck correctly. I'd have to look back to remember if there was more, but I think both those cases were straight up raw power overload as apposed to Sanya or Marcone and using the angelic wavelength.
Her will was not completely diminished yet, but it was faltering. Say, in the Beginning she tanks shots like Eb in his robes in changes, but near the end it's more like Dresden in his duster, she could still feel it, even if it wasn't getting through yet.
The effect was cumulative, every little bit weakened her, in the end both celestial and infernal power could get through Titanic bronze, which enable Namshiel to get a little blood sample for Harry to finish her off.
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The effect was cumulative, every little bit weakened her, in the end both celestial and infernal power could get through Titanic bronze, which enable Namshiel to get a little blood sample for Harry to finish her off.
yes?
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But was her armor really penetrated? Basically the heavy hitters went where the armor wasn't.
Sanya's sword went through her armor & drew blood, specifically the arm
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Sanya's sword went through her armor & drew blood, specifically the arm
Yup, that was the celestial bit, but though the Holy Sword could penetrate, he was a mere human Holy Knight. So she shook him off.
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Yup, that was the celestial bit, but though the Holy Sword could penetrate, he was a mere human Holy Knight. So she shook him off.
Yeah he didn't hurt her much, but that chink in the armor --even though the armor didn't become useless because not much of its integrity was lost-- meant her arm was exposed.
Odin exploited that fact with accurate strike using the rest of his power, so Sanya's success in penetrating it became the vital turning point for the fight against Ethniu. She became an injured Titan instead of just tired one inside an intact armor.
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Yeah he didn't hurt her much, but that chink in the armor --even though the armor didn't become useless because not much of its integrity was lost-- meant her arm was exposed.
Odin exploited that fact with accurate strike using the rest of his power, so Sanya's success in penetrating it became the vital turning point for the fight against Ethniu. She became an injured Titan instead of just tired one inside an intact armor.
Yes, together they acted like a wolf pack attacking a large animal. Alone, a wolf perhaps cannot take on a bull moose or a large stag, but a pack of wolves can with team work, and that is how they took Eithniu down, including going for her Achilles tendon.
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I doubt that titanic bronze is a " i win button" in any way, it doesn't really work like that in the DF, even the swords have angels riding along to provide what help they are allowed and the Spear did not make Dresden undefeatable.
I read it more like it helps channel, shape and perhaps boost ones will, the same will wizards use when using magic.
I find it more likely and interesting to have Dresden incorporate the bronze in his gear, the still missing should bracelet comes to mind as a clear candidate.
Up untill changes we have been told that wizards are the most dangerous when they are prepared, and we have been shown how Dresden use and tinker with his gear. Since Ghost Story we've been told how Dresden hasn't had the time or opportunity to recreate his arsenal and how he misses it.
Titanic bronze is lika a super conductor for magic Eithniu plugged it in to her own metaphysical nuclear power plant and used it for her own personal maglev train, I long to see Dresden build a supercomputer that he can plug into his own wall socket.
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Think of titanic bronze as magical super kevlar that can withstand almost every physical or magic forces aside from divine or infernal powers, it may or may not have boosted resistance if weared by stronger than Harry, but on its own it's near invicible
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Titanic bronze is lika a super conductor for magic Eithniu plugged it in to her own metaphysical nuclear power plant and used it for her own personal maglev train,
Not the terms I would have chosen, but I like it. An apt description I think. It's certainly something I think needs a source power to function. Something like a cross between an enchantment and foci.