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Messages - JayTee

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16
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: July 04, 2014, 08:06:02 AM »
Going to try to hybridize the various versions in to one. There Lot of really cool ideas that I don't want to see go to waste.

Gift of Grace -2
Description: You are guided and protected by your faith.
Musts: Guide my Hand, Righteousness
Skills affected: varies
Effect: When facing a supernatural force who's rolls are being benefitted by a power, your faith will level the playing field. This power may be taken multiple times, with each repurchase increasing the benefits by 1 step.
Hope Rises: Supernatural creatures do not benefit from inhuman Strength or Speed when targeting or dodging you. Spells and supernatural attacks (such as incite effect) Have their power reduced by 2 shifts.
More Potent Prayer:Your conviction is considered your highest skill for the purposes of modifying skills when using potent prayer. When repurchasing this power, increase the bonus given by Righteousness by +1.
Smite: You gain +1 to Conviction when using the Final Hour trapping of Righteousness.

It's basically Taran's Gift of Grace, but modified modified so that the interactions with magic/incite effect are suppressions rather than blocks. I also effectively compressed it in to one a repurchasable power.

Also, I thought I would copy over Belial's Weight of Belief and Haru's Providence, as i'd love to see them added.  :)

Weight of Belief -1
Description: The force of your convictions shake the world.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.
Skills affected: Conviction
Effect: As long as you can justify it through belief, you may employ Conviction to do Declarations as if it were a Knowledge and Perception skill. This doesn't so much reflect actual knowledge or perception as your belief that things will go as they should, and the favorable outcomes Providence arranges.

Providence -1
Description:
Your choices and beliefs have a profound impact, granting you favor above and beyond simple chance.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide my Hand and Holy Touch
Skills affected: Conviction
Effects:
Faith moves Mountains: Your faith is strong. When taking this power, you either get 2 free uses of "Faith Manages" or you may increase your Conviction by 1 when rolling for "Faith Manages". You may take this power multiple times, but the bonus to your Conviction may not exceed your original rating.

17
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: July 02, 2014, 10:41:45 PM »
I like that quite a bit, although I'd make it a suppression effect rather than a block for magic/incite effects due to my bias against "all or nothing" powers, maybe reduce the numbers a bit to make it more balanced if that becomes the case.

Not sure I like the idea of "infinite" Conviction, though. Seems like it could be cheesed.





18
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: July 02, 2014, 09:14:49 AM »
With my version, you get as powerful an ability as you pay for in character creation. With your version, in one scene the ability might not work at all if you're out of FP, in another it might reduce rolls by a bit for a single FP, and in another it might make the most powerful supernaturals into effectively pure mortals because you got a lot of FP to spend on it. Worse than the fluctuating power is that the ability does not scale. It will be exactly as powerful in a feet in the water game as it will be for a 20-refresh game. And those two problems together make for bad ability design IMHO. Other issues below;
I think there was a miscommunication somewhere, the amount reduced is static and based on how many refresh you've paid in to the power. If I have GoG -2, then the effects of powers/spells would be reduced by 2 shifts. The higher the refresh the game gets, the more points I can put in to it and the stronger it becomes.

How would it interact with range? For example, both wizards and superstrong enemies could pick up a car and throw it at a house and not be affected by a threshold normally because they are attacking at range and indirectly. Ditto, a superfast enemy standing outside a building wouldn't gain any penalties to defense against gunners from inside the building because they'd not be standing within the house's threshold.

Does it follow the standard threshold rules? A supernatural entering a threshold doesn't actually take any penalties to rolls or whatnot. It has to set aside an amount of powers costing in refresh equal to the threshold. I.e. a 2-shift threshold means a vampire would either have to reduce their supernatural strength to inhuman, or reduce their supernatural toughness to inhuman, or reduce their inhuman speed to no benefit. The exception being wizards, who take penalties to power and control instead.

Do note that the supernatural being picks which power to leave behind when entering a threshold. They could well set aside the least useful ability for their given situation and retain those that would benefit them most.
Most of this doesn't apply because it's not actually a threshold, it's just borrowing the suppression mechanics to simulate a character who possesses supernatural grace in the face of dark powers.

Last but not least, a "penalty to rolls" mechanic causes issues. Strength powers and things like Claws or Breath Weapon don't give any bonus to rolls at all (weapon rating isn't rolled). Speed powers do. Toughness powers don't. Senses don't. Shapechanging doesn't - not directly. Living Dead doesn't. Flying doesn't. And so on and so forth - not only various powers exist that don't give roll bonuses at all but those that do give bonuses don't give them at the same rate. For example, Speed powers give +1 athletics per 2 refresh, True Aim gives +1 weapons per 1 refresh, Cloak of Shadows gives +2 Stealth per 1 refresh.
So if you use a "penalty to rolls" mechanic, not all powers will be as affected by the ability. (hence why normal Thresholds subtract a set amount of refresh instead)
In general I am not worried if a power gives you an interesting trick like Wings, Claws or Breath weapon, as they're largely static abilities that can be countered with conventional armor or ranged weapons. The primary focus of GoG is to level the playing field between a True Faith character and a monster/caster using powers that can be upgraded continuously. Speed/strength/casting being the most obvious targets.

Here's a slightly reworked version that hopefully is clearer and more concise:

Gift of Grace -1
Description: You are guided and protected by your faith.
Musts: Guide my Hand, Righteousness
Skills affected: varies
Effect: When facing a supernatural force who's rolls are being benefitted by a power, you may treat the bonuses granted by those powers as being 1 shift less. In the case of magic, reduce the power of a spell by 1 instead. This power may be taken multiple times.

Alternately, as suggested by Hick Jr, reduce the shifts by 2 for each purchase.

The idea here is not to remove the powers, but to ensure that the high numbers they can throw around no longer dominate the playing field as easily.

19
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 29, 2014, 05:58:28 PM »
So it reduces the power of spells and the bonuses of Powers.
In essence, yes.

What if someone is using two separate Power bonuses on an attack against you? Like if some vampire super-swordsman takes a swing at you with Weapons 5 +1 from True Aim +1 from Blood Drinker, weapon 3 + 2 from Inhuman Strength.

Which bonuses get negated if you have threshold 1 up? What if you have threshold 3 instead?
I think the easiest answer would be to just say that it reduces the final result by X shifts, where X is the number of refresh spent on GoG, similar to how Toughness powers work. Not sure if the easiest answer is the most balanced answer, though

20
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 29, 2014, 05:32:29 PM »
I am more than okay with that.

21
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 29, 2014, 04:11:44 AM »
So it'd reduce Athletics bonuses from Speed or weapon rating bonuses from Strength?
Those would be the most common interactions, yes. Other applications of speed/strength powers could lose shifts if they were both applied against me and the skill use in question gained a bonus from supernatural powers.

How would it interact with evocation? If I have Discipline and Conviction 4 with bonuses of +3 power and control total to my fire attack spells, and I roll a -1 to hit you with a 9-shift evocation when you have 4 points of "threshold" up, and I take a point of backlash to keep my spell strong, what happens?
If I'm reading this correctly, you're gunning at me with a -1 shift, weapons 9 attack. In that case if I somehow failed to dodge it on my own (rendering the attack moot without the use of GoG), then the threshold effect would reduce the weapon shifts by 4.

For spellcraft in general I feel like it would be unfair/unbalanced if the threshold effect applied to both the power and the accuracy rating, so I think I should have to choose where to reduce the shifts before I made my own roll. Granted, I am not as familiar with spellcraft rules as I could be, so perhaps this is a poor call. I'm open to suggestions.

If I'm reading that correctly, I'd recommend beefing it up a bit. Maybe +2 Threshold shifts per Fate Point?
Maybe, depends on how balanced the crunch masters on the site deem it  ;). My instinct currently is a straight 1:1 as it's based off of Belial's suggestion, which used the same exchange rate.

22
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 29, 2014, 03:38:09 AM »
The suppressor effect (YS pg 230), a power or spell loses a number of shifts equal to the strength of the threshold. So if I were to put 2 Fate Points in to Gift of Grace, spells or powers directly interact with my character or his actions would lose 2 shifts of power, as if they were hit with a threshold.

Note that it wouldn't reduce the shifts lower than their actual base skill level. If they have Fists 5 or Athletics 5 + any stunts, I still need to deal with that normally. I just wouldn't have to worry about being rendered impotent by their speed powers, or overwhelmed by strength powers.

The same applies to casting, too. Casters can still use spells, but the crazy levels of power they can throw around with refinements/focus items would be mitigated to a degree. Even I was going against a caster with no bonuses to their magic, the loss of 2 shifts wouldn't reduce their overall casting abilities below their base Lore/Conviction/Discipline.

Note that shift loss wouldn't be omni-applicable to everything the monster/caster in question does, as it's not an actual threshold, it's just a way to model a character who's actions are being guided by the divine. Actions that do not interact with the me directly would be able to work just fine at full power.

I hope this explanation helps. Let me know if I need to further clarify it.

23
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 28, 2014, 11:34:21 PM »
Having the threshold depend on how many FP/invokes you have at hand is neither balanced nor flavor supported. If someone can negate powers through the power of his faith, then how strong his faith is should be represented and not be entirely dependent on circumstance.
I have to admit I'm confused by your critique. It's almost identical in terms of raw mechanics to the power you proposed, except it's had it's been nerfed somewhat.

Pretty sure this is impossible.
The Idea here is not to have the character generate a threshold, but instead to use the raw threshold mechanics to emulate a character possessing supernatural grace in the face of the weird.

What does this mean?
If they were to try and attack or grapple me, then the strength benefits from Inhuman/Supernatural/Mystic strength would be hit by the threshold effect.

@Taran:
It's a cool power, but my main issue with it is that it feels too... reactionary, I guess. PCs should be more proactive, IMO.

24
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 27, 2014, 06:17:33 AM »
The two powers function the same way, the only difference between the two is when the threshold effect is applied.

The general rule is that the more something supernatural tries to screw me over or prevent me from doing what I've decided needs to be done, the more likely it is to get hit with the threshold effect.

Using speed powers to dodge my attacks or maneuver against me? Threshold'ed

Using speed powers to run away from me? Not Threshold'ed

Using strength powers to crush me? Threshold'ed

Using strength powers to smash a hole in a wall? Not Threshold'ed

Using magic to affect me negatively, or try to prevent me from doing something? Threshold'ed

Using magic in the general area? Not Threshold'ed.

Other powers like Domination and Incite Emotion would definitely be threshold'ed if they were applied to me, but not others. Glamours would be on a case by case basis, but erring on the side of threshold'ed.

The idea here is to give the sense that the character's god/confidence/faith/ancestor spirits/whatever are giving them unseen support and protection against the supernatural, hence the name "gift of grace". Sanctum of Faith would apply universally to all those situations, and feels a little too overt for how faith powers are presented in the books.

25
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 26, 2014, 04:51:59 PM »
It's mechanically the same as Sanctum of Faith, only focused more narrowly on the character instead of the whole zone.

EDIT: It also can't dissolve spirits or other things that would be affected like that by a threshold. It just evens the odds and gives a fair-er chance.

EDIT: Ignore that. Better explanation: it work the same as Sanctum of Faith, except that  spirits don't dissolve and allies can't take advantage of it. It feels too strong to me if they could (although I'm not exactly the authority when it comes to power balance)

26
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 26, 2014, 05:54:59 AM »
Belial's version is actually more in line with what I was aiming for. My intention was definitely not to make it so that rolls involving supernatural powers could be reduced down to +0. That's dumb, and a result of bad wording on my part.

The only changes I'd make to Sanctum of Faith is that it wouldn't apply to the whole zone, just to rolls with supernatural powers that interact with the character, and the suppression couldn't reduce the roll below it's base skill level, which would ideally turn it in to an equalizer of sorts. Something like:

Gift of Grace [varies]
Description: You are guided and protected by your faith.
Musts: Guide my Hand, Righteousness
Skills affected: varies
Effect: When making an opposed roll involving the supernatural, you may treat the opposing power as if it were under the suppression effect of a threshold that has a strength equal to the number of Fate Points spent on this ability, up to you Conviction.

Powers that are intended to have reduced effectiveness when interacting with Gift of Grace are Strength, Speed (specifically dodging), Evocation and Thaumaturgy. Evocation and thaumaturgy are not intended to be suppressed in to uselessness, just the crazy levels of power they can throw around with all their refinements. Similarly Speed and Strength can work at full effectiveness when applied to anything other than the character who has Gift of Grace.

Thoughts?

Re: Providence - I really liked the fate point thing, but I did say that I would discard it if it was stupid, and it seems like it really is just that stupid, so I'll go with the original suggestion.  :)

27
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 25, 2014, 05:20:17 AM »
Oh wow, that holy touch power is basically exactly what I think the corebook holy touch should be, and then some, nice! I'll definitely be taking that version in games where it's allowed.

Back on topic of the custom powers, i've been thinking on them on and off while at work, and I've come up with some revisions that i'd like to have pass inspection.

Providence -2
Description: Faith provides, granting you favor above and beyond simple chance.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand and Righteousness
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Faith moves Mountains: Your faith is strong. When taking this power, you gain get 1 free expenditure of a Fate Point to activate your holy powers. You may take this power multiple times, but the total amount of free expenditures cannot exceed your Conviction rating.

For providence I modified haru's suggestion and focused on the free fate points for holy stuff, effectively turning it in to a form of refinement for true faith powers. I added the conviction cap because I felt it might be abusable in higher refresh games. (granted you'd need to shove 10 refresh in it in order to get 5 uses in most games, but I figure it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it)


Weight of Belief -1
Description: The force of your convictions shake the world.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.
Skills affected: Conviction
Effect: As long as you can justify it through belief, you may employ Conviction to do Declarations as if it were a Knowledge and Perception skill. This doesn't so much reflect actual knowledge or perception as your belief that things will go as they should, and the favorable outcomes Providence arranges.

Basically Belial's version of Providence as a separate/different power. I thought it was really awesome.  :)


Grace Against the Dark -2
Description: Mortals who leave the safety of their homes may find themselves buoyed by the knowledge that a strong spirit can make all the difference when facing the unknown terrors of the world.
Musts: The character needs to have taken Righteousness and Holy Touch
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
Hope Springs Eternal
Strengthened by the idea of a brighter tomorrow, the howling darkness of the beyond find you a much greater foe. When opposing a supernatural force, spend a fate point to reduce their rolls by 2 shifts for the rest of the scene, so long as that roll was in some way backed by a supernatural power. More than one fate points may be spent on this, but the amount reduced is only -1 per Fate Point after the first.
The Dark Yields -2
Your faith is such that even the wicked quail before you. When facing down a supernatural force, you may treat their toughness as being one step lower. Mythic becomes Supernatural, and Supernatural becomes Inhuman, and Inhuman goes away.


The real meat of this power is the primary effect Hope Springs Eternal, which is intended to act as an equalizer between a True Believer and various monsters and their ever escalating strength/speed powers and casters with their refinements. My primary concern as a point of balance is the interaction between it and Providence. They are intended to work together, but I worry that both together might be too powerful, or even that the basic effect of Hope Springs might be too strong.

The second effect is basically the benefits of soulfire turned in to a more general use faith power. I think I calibrated the refresh cost right, but let me know if I got it wrong so I can change it.







28
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 24, 2014, 04:55:30 PM »
It might work, but I'd be cautious. You'd essentially multiply the use of a Fate point by the number of scenes in a session, which might be a bit much. What's more, this way it becomes an "I have to spend this in this scene or it was wasted" sort of resource, which can lead to an overblown use of the power. With uses per session, you can spend them when you need them, without as much of a need to do so.
I'm... not certain how this is an issue? Call me dumb, but if the number of uses gets restored every scene, it effectively becomes similar to a caster using Evocations?

I think you should determine when you take the power if this is going to be a +use or a +skill thing, like when you take refinement as either focus item slots or specializations. You can switch at a milestone, of course, but switching whenever you want to seems to much. Just wanted to clarify.
Seems fair to me.

And -2 refresh for +1 is kind of expensive as well.
Seriously? You too? Man, I must suck at gaging cost effectiveness for powers.

I don't think you'll need the -1 prerequisite. Using Convictions for Declarations like that is pretty much exactly what Guide my Hand is supposed to do, so you'll kind of remove the need for spending Fate points altogether, except for very few cases. Seems weird. I would just make "Faith moves Mountains" and "Hope springs Eternal" separate powers.
I don't mind making them separate powers. The refresh cost seems the same either way, so there's no mandate for them to be all together.

29
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 24, 2014, 04:41:50 PM »
I don't think you should merge them. They've got little to do with one another.
I'm not sure how that's the case, they've both got a general feel of "unseen forces provide benefits through faith/conviction"

Also, spending 2 Refresh for +1 to Faith Manges seems weak.
+1 per scene?

These statements seem slightly contradictory.
If I remember the custom holy touch power correctly, it effectively lets you add the holy tag to your weapon. I am of the opinion that you shouldn't need to spend refresh to gain that effect if you already have the default Holy Touch. It's something you can just do with a declaration or just have it be an automatic effect.

30
DFRPG / Re: Custom True Faith powers for review
« on: June 24, 2014, 04:23:06 PM »
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I really liked Haru and Belial's suggestions for Providence, so I decided to try and modify/combine both their suggestions in to one. I took the bulk of Belial's suggestion which I really liked, and adding on Haru's version of "Faith moves Mountains" under the "hope springs eternal". I upped the refresh cost by 1, and increased the usage to per scene. I really really liked the original idea I had for Providence, so I don't want to give it up too easily (unless it really is just that bad  :o)

Providence [-1]
Description: Faith provides, granting you favor above and beyond simple chance.
Musts: The character must have taken Guide My Hand.
Skills affected: Varies
Effect:
As long as you can justify it through belief, you may employ Conviction to do Declarations as if it were a Knowledge and Perception skill. This doesn't so much reflect actual knowledge or perception as your belief that things will go as they should, and the favorable outcomes Providence arranges.
[-1] Faith Moves Mountains: Your faith is especially strong. You roll Conviction at +2 for faith-based Declarations.
[-2] Hope Springs Eternal: Your faith is strong. When taking this power, you either get 1 free use of "Faith Manages" per scene or you may increase your Conviction by 1 when rolling for "Faith Manages". You may take this power multiple times for, but the bonus to your Conviction may not exceed your original rating.


@Sanctaphrax/Haru: I'm not a fan of  that custom Holy Touch power. I am of the opinion that if a character has an weapon on them for an extended period of time, then they should just be able to say "My faith has influenced my gun/knife/whatever, it counts as holy". So I'll likely go with Belial's version of Grace Against the Dark  :)

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