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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: Timberonian on August 09, 2018, 10:56:51 AM
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Here are 3 little things I noticed while rereading the Dresden Files (it’s very possible that all 3 have been mentioned here before, I searched for them but came up empty):
1. Uriel‘s name - Ghost Story
In the end of Ghost Story Uriel gets majorly pissed if when Harry calls him Uri, because the part of his name Harry left out is of great importance for him. The German Wikipedia page of Uriel says in regards to Uriel‘s name that it’s composed of „Uri“ (meaning light or fire) and „el“ (meaning of god). So his name means light/fire if god. But when Harry called him Uri, his name was simply light/fire - no wonder he got upset about this. In addition calling hin Mr. Sunshine is indeed an adequate translation of his name. Probs to JB for including this little easter egg!
2. Uriel in Dead Beat?
After Lasciel made first contact with Harry in Dead Beat as Shiela in Bock Ordered Books Harry dreamt of his father. I’ve never given much thought about this until I connected some dots: Malcom Dresden said that he was only allowed to contact Harry because the other side (or something like that) made contact - without specifying what the other side is. But thinking about this after Ghost Story, I believe that the explanation of why Lasciel was allowed to make contact just than is a lie. She says in essence that she got permission by his subconscious self to talk to him. But that’s not how it’s supposed to work. Otherwise even a subconscious wish to let the fallen in would trigger this event.
So I believe Lasciel broke the rules allowing Uriel to balance the scale. It would be really interesting to count Shiela‘s words during her first appearence (the other ones were made by Harry‘s own choice) and Malcom‘s words during the dream. I don’t have the books here or I’d do it myself.
3. The prison break/massacre - Cold Days
During the finally of Cold Days Maeve specifically says that she wants to free the sleepers. In the first third of the books it’s mentioned that the banefire would kill all inmates but since they’re immortal in 20-30 years they would cause trouble. I might be off here because it’s been a while since I’ve read the book. But if what I remember is correct, shouldn’t the inmates stay dead because the jail break happens on Halloween?
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Maeve was dead but her mantle found another host. Not everything dies at halloween.
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Also just because everyone's Mortal doesn't mean their powerless. If your big enough and badass enough even banefire might not get through your defences.
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Here are 3 little things I noticed while rereading the Dresden Files (it’s very possible that all 3 have been mentioned here before, I searched for them but came up empty):
1. Uriel‘s name - Ghost Story
In the end of Ghost Story Uriel gets majorly pissed if when Harry calls him Uri, because the part of his name Harry left out is of great importance for him. The German Wikipedia page of Uriel says in regards to Uriel‘s name that it’s composed of „Uri“ (meaning light or fire) and „el“ (meaning of god). So his name means light/fire if god. But when Harry called him Uri, his name was simply light/fire - no wonder he got upset about this. In addition calling hin Mr. Sunshine is indeed an adequate translation of his name. Probs to JB for including this little easter egg!
2. Uriel in Dead Beat?
After Lasciel made first contact with Harry in Dead Beat as Shiela in Bock Ordered Books Harry dreamt of his father. I’ve never given much thought about this until I connected some dots: Malcom Dresden said that he was only allowed to contact Harry because the other side (or something like that) made contact - without specifying what the other side is. But thinking about this after Ghost Story, I believe that the explanation of why Lasciel was allowed to make contact just than is a lie. She says in essence that she got permission by his subconscious self to talk to him. But that’s not how it’s supposed to work. Otherwise even a subconscious wish to let the fallen in would trigger this event.
So I believe Lasciel broke the rules allowing Uriel to balance the scale. It would be really interesting to count Shiela‘s words during her first appearence (the other ones were made by Harry‘s own choice) and Malcom‘s words during the dream. I don’t have the books here or I’d do it myself.
3. The prison break/massacre - Cold Days
During the finally of Cold Days Maeve specifically says that she wants to free the sleepers. In the first third of the books it’s mentioned that the banefire would kill all inmates but since they’re immortal in 20-30 years they would cause trouble. I might be off here because it’s been a while since I’ve read the book. But if what I remember is correct, shouldn’t the inmates stay dead because the jail break happens on Halloween?
There's some timey-wimey stuff in play here, too. The explosion was retroactively effecting Halloween, but would have only actually gone off afterward.
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All things in the well are not created equal. And it might be better to think, that at least for the Queens, it may be more like the only time the mantle can change riders.
And some powerful immortal things can be killed. Morgan causes a Naagloshii to be nuked. And Vadderung says that the Banefire will kill everything on the island. Bob said he knew how to kill an immortal, not that it was the only way.
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There's some timey-wimey stuff in play here, too. The explosion was retroactively effecting Halloween, but would have only actually gone off afterward.
Yeah, I doubt Maeve was planning on standing around to be nuked by the island's failsafe.
Unless she didn't even _know_ the jailbreak would cause something on the order of a mid-size meteor strike. I suppose it's possible she was that reckless, and Nemesis might let her think she'd be fine to get her to go through with it.
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There's some timey-wimey stuff in play here, too. The explosion was retroactively effecting Halloween, but would have only actually gone off afterward.
The circle that Lily put up would have disappeared at sunrise, and everyone was mortal till then so they were clearly planning to be done before the mortality clause expired. Again it just comes back to the point that just because somthing unleashes insane amounts of devastation doesn't mean it can kill something even if said thing is mortal.
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I'm pretty sure Bob or Kringle actually says that the actual explosion will happen the day after.
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The circle that Lily put up would have disappeared at sunrise, and everyone was mortal till then so they were clearly planning to be done before the mortality clause expired. Again it just comes back to the point that just because somthing unleashes insane amounts of devastation doesn't mean it can kill something even if said thing is mortal.
Lilly did not know and Maeve was infected. It could have been a suicidal mission anyway.
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Jim defines Halloween differently than the calendar. The calendar clicks over at midnight, Halloween ends at the first birdsong. The island explodes on November 1. Halloween ends at dawn, on November 1.
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Lilly did not know and Maeve was infected. It could have been a suicidal mission anyway.
The point is the circle was put up to keep people away from them while they dealt with demonreach, they clearly intended to be done before the circle fell, which it wouldn't do until the same time the mortality clase expired.
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The point is the circle was put up to keep people away from them while they dealt with demonreach, they clearly intended to be done before the circle fell, which it wouldn't do until the same time the mortality clase expired.
Do you mean the big circle only things from the island could pass? That was not their circle.
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I had a weird idea and everybody will probably laugh. What if the island is a battery that powers all magic? Maybe Merlin was an Old God of some type. And I still don't understand why Vadderung says the Bane Fire will kill the inmates.
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Do you mean the big circle only things from the island could pass? That was not their circle.
they co-opted it for their purposes though, Lily walked the circle to close it remember. If it hadn't been more of a ward activation I'd say it was HER circle indeed.
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It was never clear to me weather Lily created it or if she just activated it, either way they clearly activated it to protect themselves while they worked, which means they intended to be done before it went down.
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It was never clear to me weather Lily created it or if she just activated it, either way they clearly activated it to protect themselves while they worked, which means they intended to be done before it went down.
I got the idea that it was one of the islands protections. I do not think the Ladies actually used it.
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I knew it was a part of the structure of the massive spell that made the well exist.
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Yeah, if it was something Maeve set up, she probably wouldn't have put in the loophole that things of the island could get through.
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I got the idea that it was one of the islands protections. I do not think the Ladies actually used it.
Someone, (Fix i think), specifically says Lilly walked the circle to activate it.
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Someone, (Fix i think), specifically says Lilly walked the circle to activate it.
Yep.
“So arrogant,” Lily said. “You reek of arrogance and deception, like all wizards. Even the famous Merlin, who built this abomination.” Her eyes narrowed. “But as complex as it is, it is still made of mortal magic. This circle that we used to stop your interference—it’s a part of the architecture here. All we had to do was feed power into it to close this place against your allies while we tore it down from inside.”
“When we landed, Maeve sent some hounds and some Little Folk after you and went straight for that lighthouse—and the guardian just popped up out of the ground, where it is now. Maeve assaulted the spirit, just like right now. She kept it busy while Lily walked a circle of the hilltop, singing. I’ve seen her set up circles like that a thousand times. But once she’d gone all the way around, kaboom, up came the wall.”
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Lilly did not know and Maeve was infected. It could have been a suicidal mission anyway.
I don't think infection rendered Maeve a complete slave who would have willingly sacrificed herself for the Outsiders, though. She wanted to usurp her mother. It might have deluded her, but she was still in the game for what she thought were selfish reasons.
Maybe she would have been willing to get blown up in the morning and spend a few decades putting herself back together as the price of knocking Mab off her throne in the long run, but I don't think she was prepared to perma-die for the cause.
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I don't think infection rendered Maeve a complete slave who would have willingly sacrificed herself for the Outsiders, though. She wanted to usurp her mother. It might have deluded her, but she was still in the game for what she thought were selfish reasons.
Maybe she would have been willing to get blown up in the morning and spend a few decades putting herself back together as the price of knocking Mab off her throne in the long run, but I don't think she was prepared to perma-die for the cause.
Nemesis was rewiring her nature. A suicidal mission is way easier if you can lie to yourself.
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"This is perfect," she said. "In one night I'm going to unleash the Sleepers, slay a Starborn, put an end to this troublesome mortal city, and begin a war between Summer and Winter. By the time the real assault on the Gates begins, Winter and Summer will be hunting one another in the night, and be so busy gouging out one another's eyes that they'll never see what is coming--all thanks to me.
The above quote from Cold Days shows Maeve knows some of the scope. She knows Chicago will perish. She believes the Sleepers will be freed and they will not be killed by the fail safe. And by inference she will back stab Lily. Implied by Winter and Summer going to war and the fact that Maeve is armed. It really didn't matter if Mab or Harry had gotten into the circle, Lily was toast. What Lily believes is irrelevant.
After Mab is summoned she thanks Demonreach."I thank you for your patience and your assistance in this matter. You could have reacted differently by chose not to."
The obvious question is why didn't he?
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Mab and demonreach have much in common. He is there to keep the monsters locked in and she is there to keep the monsters locked out. They both understand duty and they did some bonding watching over Harry’s corpse. And Demonreach understands deals. It is much better to have Mab in your debt than to piss her off.
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I don't think infection rendered Maeve a complete slave who would have willingly sacrificed herself for the Outsiders, though. She wanted to usurp her mother. It might have deluded her, but she was still in the game for what she thought were selfish reasons.
Maybe she would have been willing to get blown up in the morning and spend a few decades putting herself back together as the price of knocking Mab off her throne in the long run, but I don't think she was prepared to perma-die for the cause.
She specifically says she setup someone nearby to receive the mantle, she even took Lilly out to kill Mabs obvious backup option. I think she was just out to spite her mother any way she could, and tearing the courts apart and undermining their purposes did that the only way she could.
The above quote from Cold Days shows Maeve knows some of the scope. She knows Chicago will perish. She believes the Sleepers will be freed and they will not be killed by the fail safe. And by inference she will back stab Lily. Implied by Winter and Summer going to war and the fact that Maeve is armed. It really didn't matter if Mab or Harry had gotten into the circle, Lily was toast. What Lily believes is irrelevant.
After Mab is summoned she thanks Demonreach.The obvious question is why didn't he?
Not necessarily. As long as Titania was either ignorant of Lily's part or believed she'd been talked into it by Maeve, ll Maeve had to do was make it look like her actions where a her mothers behest and Titania would probably assume Mab had gone rouge. That was her whole plan A for Dresden, make him think Mab was the one that had gone insane, no reason she couldn't be planning to try the same on Titania.
Mab and demonreach have much in common. He is there to keep the monsters locked in and she is there to keep the monsters locked out. They both understand duty and they did some bonding watching over Harry’s corpse. And Demonreach understands deals. It is much better to have Mab in your debt than to piss her off.
Doesn't track, the echoes aren't a result of the attack, their a result of the future in which the well IS breached. That means Demonreach would have to be willing to not take action even if it meant the well was breached.
The more likely answer is the old chestnut about the more power something has the more limited it's options. It likely couldn't take action without Harry's permission. And Harry didn't know enough about how the island worked or what it could do to use that. If he had he could probably have broken the circle and shut Maeve ad Lilly down in the first few seconds after he stepped ashore. I mean it's magic could see off a freaking Walker off and according to WoJ could even take Mab. Lilly and Maeve didn't really have a hope if it acted.
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First a minor point. Maeve shot a gun.
Not necessarily. As long as Titania was either ignorant of Lily's part or believed she'd been talked into it by Maeve, ll Maeve had to do was make it look like her actions where a her mothers behest and Titania would probably assume Mab had gone rouge. That was her whole plan A for Dresden, make him think Mab was the one that had gone insane, no reason she couldn't be planning to try the same on Titania.
If Lily had survived the event the balance of power would have not been altered. No reason for the courts to throw down. At least it doesn't seem to fit.
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She specifically says she setup someone nearby to receive the mantle, she even took Lilly out to kill Mabs obvious backup option. I think she was just out to spite her mother any way she could, and tearing the courts apart and undermining their purposes did that the only way she could.
Not necessarily. As long as Titania was either ignorant of Lily's part or believed she'd been talked into it by Maeve, ll Maeve had to do was make it look like her actions where a her mothers behest and Titania would probably assume Mab had gone rouge. That was her whole plan A for Dresden, make him think Mab was the one that had gone insane, no reason she couldn't be planning to try the same on Titania.
Doesn't track, the echoes aren't a result of the attack, their a result of the future in which the well IS breached. That means Demonreach would have to be willing to not take action even if it meant the well was breached.
Demonreach understands that better than us, he had to dumb it down for Bob. He understood it was still just a potential future.
The more likely answer is the old chestnut about the more power something has the more limited it's options. It likely couldn't take action without Harry's permission. And Harry didn't know enough about how the island worked or what it could do to use that. If he had he could probably have broken the circle and shut Maeve ad Lilly down in the first few seconds after he stepped ashore. I mean it's magic could see off a freaking Walker off and according to WoJ could even take Mab. Lilly and Maeve didn't really have a hope if it acted.
It was attacked. If Mab said it could have acted differently I tend to believe her. But it knew Maeve belonged to Mab so it decided to wait for her.
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If Mab said it could have acted differently I tend to believe her. But it knew Maeve belonged to Mab so it decided to wait for her.
Erm, I feel certain it was to the sudden arrival within preprogrammed defenses of an entity directly summoned by the Warden.... how do you think the Warden adds new inmates? Activate spell form, summon creature that DR has standing orders to take below. Notice she only sets foot on the land after permission is given, and reacts like a finger lifted from a trigger. It was for herself she was worried in that moment.
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Ok, stupid question time...
Kringle said the Banefire would actually kill the inmates?
And its Halloween?
Was someone trying to Darkhallow the Island?
You've got the fuel... on a freaking epic level.
You've got a giant circle.
You've got the method of sacrifice.
I mean if the Darkhallow with the native spirits would have made a minor god...
This would have made someone who could rival... even Uriel's boss.
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The Darkhallow appears to require a particular Necromantic set up that was not in evidence.
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Demonreach understands that better than us, he had to dumb it down for Bob. He understood it was still just a potential future. It was attacked. If Mab said it could have acted differently I tend to believe her. But it knew Maeve belonged to Mab so it decided to wait for her.
Could act differently and would act differently are two entirely different things. Per mother summer in the same book Mab could pull the troops off the outer gates and use them to try to exterminate Summer, doesn't mean she would do so however.
Also for something to be a potential future it actually has to be possibble for it to happen. Lilly and Maeve had to have an actual shot at winning that fight or there is no potential future where it happens to echo back.
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Could act differently and would act differently are two entirely different things. Per mother summer in the same book Mab could pull the troops off the outer gates and use them to try to exterminate Summer, doesn't mean she would do so however.
Also for something to be a potential future it actually has to be possibble for it to happen. Lilly and Maeve had to have an actual shot at winning that fight or there is no potential future where it happens to echo back.
No, Lilly and Demonreach never had a chance of winning unless the outsiders broke through, they were just keeping demonreach busy.
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Well I have a question. In the midst of the hub bub in the circle did anyone take note that Mab, Maeve and the Red Cap all handled steel?
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Well I have a question. In the midst of the hub bub in the circle did anyone take note that Mab, Maeve and the Red Cap all handled steel?
composite weapons, no metal on the casing..
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Harry's usually pretty aware of those kinds of things, so generally speaking I figure if he doesn't mention anything out of the ordinary, it's not an issue. If it was important, it would be noticed, especially considering in the same book the sight of Mab using an iron needle is enough to snap him out of Sharkface's illusion.
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composite weapons, no metal on the casing..
OK. But it stretches my credulity. And I can't find a polymer barrel. It would be interesting to see where Maeve concealed it.
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Don't forget the sidhe driver who shot Susan. They can use weapons with metal parts, as long as it's not touching them. See also Toot and his box cutter weapons.
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See also Harry put the barrel of the gun on Mab's forehead.(page 508 of the Kindle edition) ;D Having said that it isn't really important. Just amusing. I've read Cold Days several times and this is the first time it stood out.
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See also Harry put the barrel of the gun on Mab's forehead.(page 508 of the Kindle edition) ;D Having said that it isn't really important. Just amusing. I've read Cold Days several times and this is the first time it stood out.
Did it touch her skin? I thought he just pointed it at her head.
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It reads "against". However that's just me using a magnifying lens on things not made to be looked at so closely. It works as a narrative. It took 5 plus readings and posting on a this board to allow me to catch it. I am so ready for Peace Talks. :)
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Mab is just too tough to show how much it hurt. :) I am sure Mab will make Harry pay for it at some point now however. It might not have happened to him before you mentioned it on the board but now I am guessing Jim will make him pay for it. ;D
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Jim seems to love pain. Why would we deny him his obvious need.
On another note, I was thinking about Butter's light sabre. It appears to me to be the most overpowered weapon in the DF. In one fell swoop he takes out a character the Micheal himself couldn't beat cleanly. Exactly what kind of weapon is he going to fight?
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Jim seems to love pain. Why would we deny him his obvious need.
On another note, I was thinking about Butter's light sabre. It appears to me to be the most overpowered weapon in the DF. In one fell swoop he takes out a character the Micheal himself couldn't beat cleanly. Exactly what kind of weapon is he going to fight?
Correction -- in one surprise attack he causes a character that Michael did beat to retreat.
Butters did not defeat Nicodemus in a fight. He destroyed Nicodemus's sword and made him run away.
A weapon is nothing without the ability to wield it.
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Correction -- in one surprise attack he causes a character that Michael did beat to retreat.
Butters did not defeat Nicodemus in a fight. He destroyed Nicodemus's sword and made him run away.
A weapon is nothing without the ability to wield it.
He appears to do about what Micheal did, so I'm gonna put that one in the defeat column.
Tell me what his sparring partners do when Butters first strike against their weapon, destroys said weapon. It will be interesting to see how JB paints himself out of that particular corner.
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He appears to do about what Micheal did, so I'm gonna put that one in the defeat column.
Tell me what his sparring partners do when Butters first strike against their weapon, destroys said weapon. It will be interesting to see how JB paints himself out of that particular corner.
Butters will face plenty of things that don't rely on weapons to do harm.
He can't, for example, deflect bullets with his sword any better than Michael could.
As his own short story shows, if he loses his glasses he's in trouble.
It's not an RPG. Just being able to do 9999 damage doesn't mean he's going to instantly win every fight.
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It's not an RPG. Just being able to do 9999 damage doesn't mean he's going to instantly win every fight.
Without a light sabre he couldn't win any at all. It's the only weapon Butters could wield that could make him a knight. That answers the question, why a light sabre?
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Without a light sabre he couldn't win any at all. It's the only weapon Butters could wield that could make him a knight. That answers the question, why a light sabre?
Because that is how butters mind works.
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Without a light sabre he couldn't win any at all. It's the only weapon Butters could wield that could make him a knight. That answers the question, why a light sabre?
I think you should flip that around. A Knight of the Cross always stands a chance in a fight. The Light Sabre is Butters' way of explaining to himself why he has a chance, where Michael took his confidence from his sword skills (and note even Butters is training to learn better).
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I think you should flip that around. A Knight of the Cross always stands a chance in a fight. The Light Sabre is Butters' way of explaining to himself why he has a chance, where Michael took his confidence from his sword skills (and note even Butters is training to learn better).
I suppose in the Dresdenverse, guys in their mid 40's can take up combat specialties. In the real world, mortals of that age are on the downward slide towards old age. Sword fighters become good sword fighters because they have the base talent to become so. A large part of that is physicality and good hand eye coordination. They start young, and they practice every day.
We'll see.
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I suppose in the Dresdenverse, guys in their mid 40's can take up combat specialties. In the real world, mortals of that age are on the downward slide towards old age. Sword fighters become good sword fighters because they have the base talent to become so. A large part of that is physicality and good hand eye coordination. They start young, and they practice every day.
We'll see.
Surgeon level coordination and an item that cuts like a scalpel, scalpel weight and with it's own cauterizer. Yea, poor guy won't know how to Larp a lightsaber at 40+ years of nerdism either....
Training and cross training, I got good at chi sau and coordination by being a cashier and handing money back as lightly and efficiently as possible.
....and what about these mortals? -.- Your not one of us, you gave it away with that turn of phrase! ;D
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I'm really a ghost, my body just hasn't figured it out yet.
I'll remind you that Butters become a corpse cutter cause he didn't like working on the the living. However I bought into dew drop faeries and PI Wizards, so I can live with this.
And at least we know that if Butters ever meets a rampaging M1A1 in Chicago, that he can cut it to ribbons. :o
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I suppose in the Dresdenverse, guys in their mid 40's can take up combat specialties. In the real world, mortals of that age are on the downward slide towards old age. Sword fighters become good sword fighters because they have the base talent to become so. A large part of that is physicality and good hand eye coordination. They start young, and they practice every day.
We'll see.
Well, I imagine Butters-who-trained-in-his-forties is still better than Butters-who-never-trains. I don't expect him to get close to Michael's level, but given the lightsaber he won't need to get close.
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Talk about telegraphing. ;D From Ghost Story.
"When are you going to get in this ring and train like a man?"
"About five minutes after I get a functional lightsaber," Butters replied easily,